5 Financial Risks in Retirement–and How to Avoid Them

What are the 5 financial risks you will face in retirement (& how do you avoid them)?

With the right planning, you can create your own secure retirement…

That means having the money for the life you want

But traditional planning doesn’t work for retirement…

Wealth distribution is very different from wealth accumulation…

In this podcast, we show you how to prepare for the top 5 financial risks in retirement and achieve financial balance.

Mentioned in this episode:

Transcript

April Schoen: Hello, everyone, and welcome. Glad you could join us today. My name is April Schoen. And I'm sitting here today with John Curry. 

John Curry: Hey April. Hello, everyone. 

April: And today we're going to be talking about five financial risks you're going to face in retirement and what are some things that you can do to avoid them. Okay? Now this talk is really ideal for anyone who plans to retire one day, or if you're close to retirement, or even if you're already retired, because these risks that we're going to go through really impact everyone, honestly, they actually impact you too while you're working. But we're going to talk today about these five financial risks, how they impact you both while you're working and then once you also get into retirement as well. 

Now, I can't believe here we are in July 2022. And I can't believe it's been over two years since COVID started, right. And although we are to keep hearing some more about these cases, but that's another story for another day. But you know, COVID, I was thinking about how in March of 2020, when the world shut down, right? When it felt like, here we were going along, everything seemed fine. And then all of a sudden, March of 2020, we had COVID. And there was really all of this uncertainty. 

And I remember all the uncertainty and the fear, concerns that we had over our health and our loved ones. We also had concerns over the economy, there was a lot of uncertainty at the time, and we didn't really know what all COVID would mean for us for and what the future would hold. Well, you know, right before COVID, I actually had hired a coach. She's a business coach for women. And I hired her to help me with my public speaking. But really, in working with her, I got so much more than that. 

And I'm so grateful I hired her. Because I knew as soon as COVID started that I couldn't do this on my own. And I needed to have someone else, someone that I could lean on. Someone I could bounce ideas off of. And she had been a coach, still is, but a coach for over 30 years. And her experience and her perspective in working with countless other clients was invaluable to me at that time. She was really a good rock, as we like to say. And I'll tell you working with her was well worth the investment. 

In fact, I'm still benefiting from the work that we did over two years ago. And why do I tell you all this? I tell you all this, because I think we've all been there. We've been in that place of uncertainty and having fear. And honestly, you may be having that right now. Especially if you're thinking about retirement, what it’s gonna look like for you. Are you ready to retire? And then let's just think about the uncertainty we have right now in the world, much like we did two years ago at the start of COVID. But today, we've got inflation, right? The numbers just came out today that the inflation for June was 9.1%. 

The highest it's been in over 40 years. We've got interest rates climbing, we've got still some geopolitical risks, like what's happening with Russia and Ukraine. And so that's why I tell you all this, because I know some of you may be feeling a little bit that today. And so here's what we're going to talk about today. We're going to talk about how you can create your own retirement, okay. It's not my retirement, it's not your neighbor's retirement, it's not John's retirement, it's your own secure retirement. 

And what makes it secure is it's not just about money that you have, but it's having the money for the things that you want. Okay, and to have this life that you want in retirement. That's what we're going to talk about today. So I'm gonna bring on John, but before I do, let me tell you a little bit about John. 

So, John's amazing. He's really been helping clients for almost 48 years, and we work together. But one of the things that John is great at is his ability to see strategy for someone and really being able, I think of it almost like a chess game, and him being able to see these moves like three or four moves ahead, right, like in a chess game. And he knows you know, how to do it, how to do well when it comes to helping clients get ready for retirement. He knows what works and what doesn't work for people. 

And he's great at spotting some red flags. So if there's a point of weakness in someone's plan, he can see it. And you that really just comes from him being in business for almost 48 years and helping 1000s of clients at this point in his career. So I think it's gonna be great today is we'll get some of his perspective as well as we start talking about these financial risks. So glad we're gonna have the call today.

John: Same here. Nice to be sitting across the table. We've done so many of these where we did them via Zoom, and couldn't be sitting across the table. so, I've been very grateful this year that we could do all this. I want to make a comment before I, I'm going to call it bragging about April a little bit. The things that we're going to cover today, it is not new territory for me. I started in business in 1975. It was almost 48 years ago. 

So inflation, uncertainty, and we might touch on some of that as we get through today. But what I want to say is this. You went out and hired a coach. I hired a coach. The first time I hired one was back in the early 80s. I think 82. 82, 83. We're coaches, we're not we're not just financial advisors. Most of the work that we do is the standpoint of coaching and listening. I'm thinking of some people we saw yesterday where the guy's very sharp, he understands money. But he asked, what did he say? I need your perspective. 

I need April and John, because you could ask the tough questions that I haven't thought about. And sometimes we do like a friend and I call questioning your answer. And you're good at that. And but let me say this. If you look at the picture that's on the screen. April may look really young. But let me tell them, she's got 12 years of experience of helping people. She's very sharp at what she does. So just because someone is young, you want to tell them how old you are?

April: Yes, I'm 38. I'll be 39 in December.

John: I'm 69. I'll be 70 in December. So I would like for you for just a moment to talk about how we feel like we help people because of our age difference, gender. Would you talk about that for a minute.

April: Sure. I think and John had been working together really about eight, a little over eight years now. And we really realized early on the benefit we had of working together to help clients because we cover a couple of different gaps. We cover the gender gap of having both a male and female perspective. We cover the age gap, as he mentioned, he's going to be 70 this year, I'm going to be 39. So we just have different perspectives on things. And it's really just helped us have a very efficient team in working with our clients.

John: I just thought of something I've got to comment on. A while back after one of our webinars. A good friend of mine, I saw him it Publix, he said, you're talking about retirement planning. But when are you going to retire? I said well, smart aleck on paper, I am retired. But I enjoy doing what I'm doing. So I'm still working. So call me semi-retired. That made him happy with that. I got one more thing about April before we get going here. I lovingly refer to April as the investment geek. 

April: I wear it proudly. 

John: I'm still going to get you a crown. 

April: I know.

John: I say that because what April brings to the table is not just looking at charts. And I bring this up because you mentioned inflation. The numbers are out today, but the numbers by themselves mean nothing. That's the published inflation rate, what is your personal inflation rate? And that's why your investment planning, retirement planning, financial planning, estate planning, all that must be personalized. And that's what April brings to the table. It's getting to know the clients, helping them. And it's not just about oh, look how great I am. I made you a lot of money. Because anyone who does investment work, if they're telling the truth, you don't always make money, sometimes you lose money. That's how you manage risk. So I just wanted to get that in there for you get into the, the heart of the presentation.

April: Absolutely. Like you said, I think those two things work really well together. So let's talk about what we're gonna go over today. We're gonna, we're gonna talk about five financial risks in retirement and how to avoid them. And no matter what stage of life you're in right now, no matter if you think you've got it all figured out, no matter if you aren't sure where to start. Or if you're not where you want to be quite honest with you financially. I'm glad that you're here, because this presentation is gonna be really good when we get into these risks. 

Now, a couple of questions I have for you on the call today, or if you're listening to this later is, so how many of you would want more freedom? Okay, that can be time freedom, that could be money freedom. Or how many of you would want more security, or more time with your family? Or how many of you really want all of those things, right? I want more freedom. I want more security and more time with my family. Well that's great, because that's what we're going to kind of summarize today as we get into how do you alleviate some of these risks. 

So we've got about 45, 50 minutes left in our presentation today, we're going to talk about how to avoid these financial risks so you can enjoy more of your retirement and you're going to know how this is relevant to you as we go through. But if it's okay, what I'm going to do is we're going to save enough time at the end, so that we can set aside some time to talk about next steps and how to do what we call is a discovery call. Because let's be honest, in the time we have together today, we don't have enough time for me to get all of the knowledge out of my head and all the knowledge out of John's head to you. 

So we're going to kind of summarize it so you know what's relevant to you. And then we're going to talk about, at the end of our talk, today, we'll show you how we can schedule a discovery call. So we can personalize this to your situation. Okay, but don't stop listening. We've got some really good stuff we're going to go through. But we'll save some time at the end to make sure we can customize it for you. So let's get going here. So here's the three things we're going to cover today. 

We're going to talk about why traditional planning doesn't work for retirement. And that's going to include a couple of things. We're going to talk about, what's the difference between saving money and spending money? Okay, that's really what wealth accumulation and wealth distribution means is, are some, I say in more layman's terms of what's the difference between saving money and spending money? And we're going to talk about these five financial risks.

John: I can solve all the everybody's problems right now, yes, with just a simple statement. Here's the key to it. Spend less, save more. It's like losing weight. Eat less, move more. No magic to it. It just sounds good.

April: It sounds good. Well, you know, I think, John, it's pretty important because we talk about how a lot of these financial principles that we've been talking about truly for decades, they're still sound principles today.

John: They'll always be sound principles. Principles are just that. They don't change. Okay, they don't change. That's why they're called principles. They work. It's the foundation of proper planning.

April: That's right. So we're gonna go through that as well. So here's why this is so important, what we're talking about today. Is that the decisions you make will determine your destiny. I want you to write that down. The decisions you make will determine your destiny. And here, here's what we find a lot that happens, especially right now, people are making decisions based on feelings. And what we want you to do is we want you to make your decisions based on facts. 

Based on knowing all your options, being able to evaluate what's best for you, so that you can make a decision based on what is important for you. And that is how we got our clients. So I keep talking about these five financial risks. Well, what are they? So the five risks we're talking about today is living too long, becoming sick or injured, market volatility, taxation. We're primarily talking about taxation on retirement accounts, although we could get into taxes in general. And then also inflation.

John: I don't know why you would want to spend any time on any of those.

April: Well, and I was just thinking, as I was preparing for this, here we are almost in the middle of July. And some of this is so timely, again, inflation number came out for June 9.1%. Inflation, meaning prices in June were 9.1% higher than they were last June. Market volatility. Look at what's happening in the stock market this year. The S&P is down about 20%. And bonds are down about 10%.

John: It's truly like a roller coaster every day. You can you could turn on the financial TV new shows, and look. It'd be red then green, red, green, red, green, up and down just like a roller coaster. It's insane.

April: So that's why we're gonna get to the some of those sound financial principles.

John: And I'm glad you said that again. Because if you have planned first, and not just rushed out and bought some financial product that somebody was touting, then you can weather the storm. If, however, you put all your money in something that's high risk, and didn't do proper planning, I can see why you'd be worried. 

April: Absolutely.

John: I'm concerned, let's be clear. I have money invested. I don't like seeing it go down. I want it to go up and up and up and up every day. Never down. 

April: Never down. 

John: That not reality. So we have to be positioned to take care of all of these financial risks. And there's more, but these are the key.

April: So you know, I earlier I mentioned, John, about how, you know, you've been doing this almost 48 years and, and I have been able to see this firsthand too about the lessons that we've learned through planning. Through helping hundreds and 1000s of clients at this point. And really what's relevant about today's call and this webinar that we're doing is, you know, what we've found about what works and what doesn't work for clients when it comes to retirement planning. So that's really some of what we're going to share. So I'm gonna kind of contrast that with our planning process with what we find to be the most traditional approach.

John: Keep in mind that most people who are listening today, they've only seen one financial plan, theirs. But as you just pointed out, we've we've seen literally 1000s. And we've learned from those that we can share what we've learned. We've seen this before. We know where this story ends, or how it ends, let us guide you.

April: That's right. So what we find to be is the most traditional approach to planning is something that's called the safe withdrawal plan. Sometimes you might hear it as the 4% rule, or the 3% rule. Now, what I want to mention before we go through some of this is that we do have a different approach to planning. But this is what we see to be the most common. I can't tell you how many client meetings we have where someone comes in and they may not say these exact words. They may not say the exact words, they may not say safe withdrawal plan or the 4% rule. But that's really what they're meaning. 

So let me explain what this is. The idea behind this common approach is that you invest your entire portfolio, in some sort of mixtures of stocks and bonds and mutual funds. And then you begin to take fixed consistent withdrawals from that bucket. Okay, again, thinking sometimes it's called the 4% or 3% rule, because that's the idea is you're taking 4% or 3%, out as income. But again, you're taking fixed consistent withdrawals from a bucket of money that's inherently variable and inconsistent.

It as John mentioned, it fluctuates on a daily basis. So, easy for me to say, right. So besides the fact that that brings just in itself, a certain amount of uncertainty and unrest, studies have shown that while it's the most common, it's not the most efficient. It really doesn't create the best outcome for you. But here's what happens. It actually requires the most amount of capital to provide you less income in retirement. You have more taxes, because it's always taxable, because you're always taking interest off the portfolio. It causes you to have more risk than you may otherwise. 

There's always the presence of risk, because everything is always invested. And you actually have less liquidity. Because if we have this bucket that we're going to be using for income, we can't take any other withdrawals out of it. Because if you take anything else from this bucket, that means you're going to have what, lower income later. So this approach really leaves a lot to be desired. And we've seen it not work for clients on a consistent basis. And we've really chosen to approach things differently, and to have a different planning process. Okay.

And here's the problem with this traditional approach, is it fails to acknowledge that there's a difference between saving money and spending money. It fails to acknowledge there's a difference between accumulating wealth and distributing wealth. Okay, so let's talk about an example. So an example, this analogy we're going to use is we're going to talk about if you were climbing up and down a mountain, okay. This is not really unlike the task of a, that we face every day when we're working and saving and hoping to retire one day.

So I want you think about, here you are on the way up the mountain. And that's our working years. And in our working years, our job is to turn our income, to turn our cash flow into net worth. And ideally, we're going to reach this point, we're going to the top of this mountain, and we're going to feel retirement is possible. We're ready to step off in this beautiful thing called retirement. And as we begin to head down the mountain, we actually do the opposite. We're now taking our net worth. And we're going to turn that into income.

So the truth is, is these two ideas, saving money and spending money, just like climbing up and down a mountain, they're opposite goals at the end of the day. And there are economic forces that are always at work that we always have to deal with. So just like when we're climbing the mountain, gravity is always there. It's always gravity, but it impacts us differently. We react to it differently. And the decisions we make going up and down the mountain are different. And that's the same thing is true in retirement. 

There are always these economic forces that are always going to be there. But we act differently to them when we're working and when we get into retirement. So these are these five risks. So one of them is, it's mortality, which is the risk of death. So let's talk about this for a minute. A very fun topic. We're just starting off with a bang, the risk of death. Okay, so when we're working, the risk is that something happens to me so I'll get I'll use myself as an example. I'm married and I've got two boys. In fact, my little one's birthday was yesterday. He just turned six.

John: I would debate that. You have three boys. You've got one grown-up boy called a husband, and two sons. 

April: And two sons who happen to be about six and nine. That's right. So the risk for me at this stage is if something happens to me and I die too soon, and my income stops, that impact is going to have on the people that I care about. And so I've taken that risk off the table with the life insurance that I have. But we have the same risk when we step off into retirement, but it's different. It's now not dying too soon, but it's living too long. It's outliving our resources. Okay. And again, I don't necessarily use those words. 

But I hear a lot of times people say, you know what, I don't want to have to go back to work when I'm 80 because I have to. Or I don't want to be a burden on my children. Right. That's the concerns that we have. And this is that risk that we have to manage again. There's also the risk of becoming sick or injured. Okay, so we don't, so we didn't die, but we become sick or injured. What happens in that case? Well, we were working, the risk is that our paycheck stops. Okay. So I have that same risk today, for my family, that something happens to me today. And I can't get up and come to work tomorrow. 

But in retirement, it's not our income that stops, our income actually keeps going. But it's our expenses that skyrocket, right? So we have us, we're sick or we're hurt, and now we have more expenses to deal with. And this can threaten, it can erode our assets over time. So we can tell you stories of clients this year, who got sick, and yeah, they had to start having some help, some care coming to the, to the house to help out with some things, right. So these things are very real. Again, this is a risk, but it impacts our balance sheet in a very different way when we're working and when we get into retirement.

John: Some people on this webinar will know my story about my leg being amputated. Let me tell you, without proper planning, financially speaking, mentally, physically, I'd be in big time trouble. But because I had done a good job of ensuring myself for health insurance along the way, long-term care needs, things like that. And using my life insurance and assets together as a tool, that illness did not destroy me financially. Nor will it. And that's a big time injury. Serious, serious stuff when they cut your leg off. But I'm still going strong.

April: That's right. Definitely things we have to work on and have a plan for. The next is market volatility. These other risks is market volatility. It's something we're feeling today. You know, we've been talking about this for years, but the market's been up and up and up, right. And so here we are, the S&P is down about 20% here today. So what happens with market volatility? Well, when we're working, you know, market volatility is always causes a lot of heartburn. Now, let's be honest about it, so I'm 38 gonna be 39, I don't ike to see my accounts down either. I don't like seeing them down with what the markets doing. 

But at the same time, I know that I have time on my hands. I know that I don't need that bucket for income anytime soon. And so I have the time to weather this storm and for the markets to come back. Okay. So when we've got clients who are in retirement, this is something that we have to navigate and a risk that we do have to take off the table. Because this market volatility that can be the thing that really is a can be a threat to your stability, because as you're taking money out of accounts, you have more risk.

John: Well, plus when do I take the money out? And I think back to 1994, buying a house. I had planned on using some money in my investment account for the down payment, and closing costs. Well, for those who were around back then, and watched the market, the accounts were down like they are today. So if I had not had other cash available, savings, cash value insurance, things like that, to help me then if I took that money out, it's a permanent loss. And it especially at my age now, the word foe is really big time. It is definitely the enemy at that point. Volatility. Because if I don't have staying power and liquidity, I could get hurt.

April: Absolutely. And you know, I can't go back to where we are right now in 2022. With the S&P is down 20% and bonds are down 10% here today. Where you feel like there's no place to go. There's no place to hide. You know, even when there's traditional planning of saying, well, I'm going to have more in bonds that hasn't held true for this year because of what's happening. So you have to look at it, look at it differently. And the next thing is taxes. 

So you know, a lot of us when we're saving money, we love saving money into our tax-deferred vehicles like a 401k or a traditional IRA or a 457 plan. And we love them because we get to put money in that we're deferring taxes on. So we don't pay tax on the money that goes in and it grows tax-free. But the problem is we get to retirement and every single dollar that comes out is taxed at your highest marginal rate. So what can feel like the best place to save $1 can be the worst place to spend $1. 

And we see it all the time with clients who have the money, and they don't want to spend it because of what, they don't want to pay the tax. We see that all the time. So again, going back to having proper planning so that you can plan for taxes, okay, because we know they're going to be there. It's just how do you navigate it? And then we've got inflation. So inflation is, you know, we used to call it the silent thief. I don't think it's that silent anymore. 

John: It's loud and bold today.

April: It is, it is. And what inflation does, as we all know, is it erodes your spending power over time. So that same dollar today, doesn't feel like $1 tomorrow because the cost of goods and services go up. So when we're working what we can do to combat inflation is we get pay raises, maybe we get a promotion, we change jobs, we get pay raises, we earn more money. And that way we can naturally offset inflation. But it's very different when we're in retirement. And we're on more of a fixed income, right. And cost of goods and services go up. What does that force us to do? It forces us to spend less money because now we don't want to worry about dwindling down our net worth over time. 

So we've got this challenge of how do we combat inflation. And these, these challenges are very different when we're going up and down the mountain. And that means we do need a different strategy to succeed, that has to be different than maybe the strategy that we use while we were working. And this is so our planning process, our approach is something that we've really been fine-tuning over the last 47, 48 years. And we've really developed a set of easy roles that allow our clients to have balance in retirement, and allow them to take some of these risks off the table. So how do we do that? 

Well, the first thing that we want to do is we want to address those risks that we just talked about. We want to talk about how do we take some of that risk off the table. Because for most people, you know, it's not really the underperformance of the stock market that causes them a lot of pain, although you might be feeling some pain this year. It's really the under, it's really more of the inability to deal with some of these unexpected events or forces from an economic standpoint. 

And so what we want to do is we want to look at these, these risks and say, what can we take off the table that maybe are more personal in nature that affect us one at a time. Like living too long, or dying too soon, or becoming sick or injured. And then how do we also address those more broad economic risks like market volatility and taxes, inflation? Well, the first thing we want to do is try to alleviate some of those risks. And we do that by first looking at not what's your asset allocation, meaning how are you invested in your retirement accounts in your investments, but we want to look at income allocation or cash flow allocation, as we also like to call it. 

So when we talk about retirement planning, we look at a couple things. One, we want to look at your guaranteed sources of income. What's Social Security going to be? Do you have a pension? What are your guaranteed sources of income? And is that enough to cover your basic living expenses, okay. And then from there, we really want to have two other buckets on your balance sheet. We want to have a bucket that's going to be for discretionary income. So maybe you're going to take that trip this year. 

John: I can buy a boat then.

April: You can buy a boat. You're doing some remodels at the house, right. It's this discretionary bucket. It's not just basic living expenses, but it's really having this bucket for discretionary spending. And then we also want a growth bucket. So we want money that's continuing to grow on our balance sheet. Okay, I'm gonna come back to that inflation. You know, that's something we've been talking about for years that people don't feel it as much as they are right now, in years past. So we know we've got to have money that's continuing to grow on your balance sheet, so that you can have more income later, right. 

And one of the things that allows you and helps you do all this is having what we call is true liquidity. Now we define your liquidity as an asset, a bucket on your balance sheet that you're not having to take income from it. Because if you're taking income from it, it's not really that liquid because you need it for income purposes. But we really want to look at having liquidity first. I think sometimes, John, our clients get tired of us talking about liquidity, and how important it is. But it really will help you with some of those risks.

John: But let me make a point here. You keep saying 47, almost 48 years, almost half a century of doing what we do. How many times have we had people come in, they're not worried about the market, they don't panic, like their friends, because they do have that liquidity. They have that true liquidity, because they don't need that money to live on. That's power, you're going back to freedom earlier financial and mental, emotional, better, a better word. If you have done a good job of building that bucket, then you can handle risk better. And you can also just, you see me all the time, I'll just, it's like brushing dandruff off my shoulder. You can brush those worries aside. Without liquidity, you're living on the edge. 

April: Absolutely. 

John: So we'll never stop talking about it.

April: Nope. Again, sometimes I think it may seem counterintuitive to start with liquidity. But it really is, we've got to make sure that you have that bucket, because that's what's gonna help you sleep at night. And that's what's going to help you be insulated from those risks that we talked about. So that you can have permission with your other money to do more and be more efficient. Okay. And then the other thing we want to do too, is we want to minimize taxes. Now this, you know, something we want to work on for it to be something that's strategic. And it's something that we do on an ongoing basis, so that we can minimize taxes over time. 

And I'll be honest, there are some clients that we meet with and we can help you minimize taxes and other clients, depending on their current situation, it's a little harder to do that. And that's kind of getting into more of the details and nitty-gritty planning. But we have we've done webinars on tax diversification in retirement. And it's a great presentation to talk about how you can have diversity when it comes to tax planning. So really, what we want to do here is we really want to have a balanced structure. 

And this is what I was talking a little bit earlier, we want to first have that true liquidity, meaning we want to have liquid assets on your balance sheet that aren't tied to income. We also want to look at your guaranteed sources for income, what's your, do you have a pension, what's your Social Security going to be? So we really want to make sure that you've got the income in retirement that you need to cover those basic living expenses. Making sure those lifestyle costs are covered. And then from there, we really want to have two other buckets, we want to have that variable income bucket. 

And then we also want to have a growth bucket so that you have assets that are continuing to grow on your balance sheet. So our planning process when we're working with clients is really, it's a series of conversations for each client. And it's based on this structure here. And we start also by talking about more, well we start with is what is their vision for retirement? What do they want their future retirement to look like? So if you're getting ready, let's just say you're getting ready, you're thinking about retiring soon. 

What do you want the next 15, 20, 30 years to look like? And it's important that we start there. That we start with this idea of what do you want your retirement to look like in the future? And then from there, we really want to look at where are you today? So getting a picture, high level, really, we call it high-level data, but really a snapshot about where you are today. So we can see, are those two things in alignment? Where you want to go, and where you are today. Are those two things in alignment? Or are some tweaks needed to be made?

John: And I would submit to you, like the gentleman told us yesterday, having these conversations, eliminates a lot of things and brings clarity. And getting a clear vision of what you want is, is in my opinion, the most important thing. Because then the steps, the process, if you will, will guide us to the right strategies and products. If we're clear on what we want.

April: That's right. So that's what I want to do now John is I want to actually walk everyone on the call through is they're starting to think about what do they want retirement to look like or even if they're in retirement, let's start kind of thinking about that vision and what are they, what is it that they really want it to look like for them? So when we're starting to think about this vision for retirement, we think of a couple of different categories, but you really want to break this down. This is a great time if you've got a notepad or some paper and pen handy. 

And if not, you may want to just grab some so you can jot some down because we're going to be asking a series of questions as we go through and I want you to think about what you want your retirement to look like. So, first thing I like to do is think about how far in the future is this? Is it one year? Is it three years? Five? Is it right now? You know, sometimes we meet with clients, and they say I'm ready now. So when you know, what's this timeline, think of it like a ramp, right? What's this timeline for you and when you want to go into retirement. And there's some, some categories, you want to think about. 

What are the relationships, your housing, your lifestyle, your health, and then financial. Okay, so we start with this first one with relationship. Well, who are the most important people in your life? Who is it that you want to spend your time with in retirement? Is it a spouse or a significant other? Is it kids, grandkids? Do you have aging parents that you need to take care of? And Will you be needing to support any of these in any way? So think about who are the people in your life that you want to spend time with? Especially as you're getting ready for retirement. You know, we have a thing, we talked about retirement is, what are you going to do when everyday is a Saturday. 

Meaning if you're working, you know, we're used to working Monday through Friday, and you have your weekends to go play? What do you do now that every day is Saturday? How will you spend your time. And I'll tell you, our clients that spend time early planning what they're going to do in retirement are happier. The ones that have more of a sense of purpose in retirement are happier. So relationships are very important to think about. The who in your life. And then housing, we want to think about where. 

So will you stay in your current home? Will you downsize? Will you move to another city and state? You know, we've got clients who talk about aging in place. So I'm thinking about some clients of ours that over the last few years, they've been doing some major renovations to their house, because they're planning to stay there. They don't want to leave. So how do they make sure that their house can, they can age in place, and they can stay there. It's very important to think about those things. We have some clients who retired last year here in Tallahassee, and they moved to Orlando, because their daughter was pregnant. 

They're about to have their first grandson, their first grandbaby. And so they said, you know what, we're, we're retiring, and we want to move so we can be closer to the grandchildren and be able to watch them grow up. So think about housing, you know, thinking about another client, Rhonda, who she's not, I love talking to her because every time we talk, she's gone to visit a new place, because she's not sure if she wants to settle down yet. But she's narrowing it down.

John: That's always exciting.

April: So she's taking these trips to Georgia and Tennessee and Virginia and North Carolina, to figure out what area does she want to be in next, because she likes to be outdoors and go hiking. So start thinking about some of those things. And then the lifestyle. I jumped ahead earlier when I said what will you do with every day is a Saturday. Okay. But it is something to think about. And I also tell people, what do you think about what are some things that you've always wanted to do, but life got in the way, because now you can have some time for those. 

We have clients who tell us, they're busier now than they were when they were working. Or they don't know how they ever actually put time into go to work because they have so much going on. Which is really, really fun. And they're excited about it. It's not ho-hum, they're excited about it.

John: But contrast that to people who sit home in front of a television all day, watching the bad, quote, financial news as they all say. So those are the people that I would say, are the ones that are in the category of not being happy, because they worry about too much. And they're just generally not happy.

April: Well, I'm thinking about our client who's 90, you remember John, I called our client to schedule a time, it's time for him to come in for one of our annual reviews. And I called and we were chatting, I was gonna get a time on the calendar. And he said, well, April, you know, I have got to give up some of my social commitments. I am just too busy for the next three weeks. And, and I laughed, but I just love that story because he's so vibrant. Even at 90, you know, to still be going and doing all these things that he wants to do.

John: Just like our friend Charlie 95 years old, still going strong. 

April: Love it. 

John: He's probably got more activities on this calendar socially than you and I combined.

April: Right and that's probably what keeps them young. So think about what is it that you want to do in retirement. Now, health. We talk about health a lot. This is.

John: I've got to say something real quick. Just having this conversation, I'm thinking about this lady. I won't call the name but because some people might know her but I think she's 96 years old. And when I was doing ballroom dancing lessons, I would dance with her. And I had the pleasure of dancing, even though I had the prosthesis. She came over, she said, can you dance tonight. I said I can move along with you. It was good. She's either 96 or 97. And she loves the dancing, that ties into lifestyle where you're about to go with health, because she's taken care of herself mentally and physically.

April: Absolutely. Well, you know, health is, I would say, the one area that we get a lot of client questions from clients. They are concerned maybe not about their health right now. But what will their health or their medical situation look like in the future? So we spend a lot of time talking through health care in retirement and what does Medicare look like. Or, you know, if you're under 65, what will you do for health care as you bridge that gap, but thinking about those health care costs, because research says that when you're retired, you actually will spend more on health care than you do on housing. 

So it's definitely something that we want to address and have a plan for. So that comes to the financial side of planning. So a couple things for you to think about on the financial side. One is looking at how much money do you earn today? What's your current income? Now this is, especially if you're still working, thinking about how much money you're earning today? And then how much debt do you have? Do you have any debt? Will it be paid off by the time you retire? You know, we have some clients we're working with right now who are retiring about 18 months. And that is their plan. 

They've got some fun toys, an RV and motorcycle and things like that. And so that's their plan is to have all the fun toys paid off before retirement. So they can go and travel and do the things they want to do. And then are you saving money right now? How much are you saving? Are you just putting into regular savings? Are you putting into retirement accounts and investments? How much money are you putting back on your balance sheet for the future. And then we also call it a spending plan for retirement. Not a budget necessarily, but more of a spending plan, just so you can think intentionally about where you want your money going in retirement. 

So no matter where you are, again, whether you think you can wait or not, I will tell you this, you do have to be proactive when it comes to your money. And when it comes to planning for this, getting ready for this next phase. You have to be proactive with your decisions, so that you just that way you don't know your what your choices are. And then you have to wait. And maybe you're not prepared. 

Okay, so I want you to just imagine for a second that you wanted to buy a house and you want to buy this house three years from now. But in those three years, you don't think about it. You don't look at your income, you don't look at you know how much you're going to need for a loan? How are you going to get a loan, you don't look at how much you're gonna need for the downpayment or what our closing costs gonna be. You don't look at anything. And we fast forward three years, guess what, you're not buying a house, you're not going to be ready to buy that house. 

John: Party pooper.

April: But here's the fun part, John. But what if you are proactive instead? So you said, okay, I'm gonna buy this house in three years. And so what if you're proactive? What if you started meeting with realtors and mortgage brokers and started getting information? What if you started researching neighborhoods and types of houses that you want to be? You know, do you want to be in a family-friendly neighborhood? Do you want to be in a 55 and up community? Do you want to be in a condo downtown or you want to have more space and more land. 

Start thinking about the type of house you want to be in. And then getting price ranges and knowing how you're going to finance that. Think about the difference that will make if you're proactive if you plan to buy the house. Right. So today, we talked about a couple different things. But we talked about five financial risks that you may have in retirement, how to start alleviating some of those risks, right. And we also started talking, talking about how to build a vision for what your retirement will look like. 

Well, I think it's incredibly important as you're starting to think about what it's going to look like for you that you don't just do this on your own, but you make sure that you've got a guide that you've got someone that can help you because you're going to have a lot of decisions to make. So I would recommend that we schedule a time for a discovery call. So let me explain what a discovery call is. 

A discovery call is a 30-minute call where we're going to help you get clarity. We're going to help you get clarity About that retirement vision, you know, what is it that you want retirement to look like? That's going to include clarity about your financial goals and concerns. We're going to talk about what opportunities are available for you, to you. Is it one of the strategies we talked about in our planning process, right, in being able to alleviate those financial risks in retirement, you know, what opportunities do you have? What's holding you back? What are the roadblocks in your way? 

And then what specific steps can you take that's gonna save you time and money and help you get there even faster. Okay, now, I don't know if we're the right fit for you. Because I'll be honest, we're not the right fit for everyone. But if we schedule a time for a discovery call, that's going to help us determine if we're a good fit to work together. So a discovery call, this is great for you, if you're motivated, if you're committed to reaching your goals, you know, you've got this lifestyle in retirement that you want. 

If you're coachable, and you're willing to, to learn and be open-minded. And if you take action, okay. But this call is not for you, if you're not coachable. If you're not willing to listen to other ideas, or if you're just expecting some unpaid consulting. So let me go through and walk you through how to schedule a call. You can call our main office at 850-562-3000. Again, that number is 850-562-3000. And you can ask to schedule a discovery call from our webinar. Okay. 

We also have a link on our website for you to be able to schedule a call as well. And that is johnhcurry.com/aprilschoen, okay. That's the best way, if you want to do it through the website, it'll pull up my calendar, and you'll be able to see and pick a time, date and time that works for you. So that's johnhcurry.com/aprilschoen. But you know, John, I'll make sure that I send that link out to you. I'll get an email to everybody after the webinar, so that they have the link. And they also have the phone number as well. 

John: Make it easy. 

April: That's right. That's right. Well, I want to just say thank you to everyone for joining us on the call today. Appreciate you being on and we look forward to talking to you soon.

John: April, this has been fun. We're talking about some things that because of the uncertainty and inflation and the volatility today, it's bringing back memories of people that literally I've been working with since September of 1975. And just thinking about how they're plan has grown. And as I've grown with them, we've grown together, of what you have 48 almost 48 years later, and it's just nice, just kind of walking down memory lane a little bit. It's a serious subject. And I hope that people will be serious about it. Laugh have a good time, but be serious about your planning.

April: That's right. Great. Thanks so much. We'll talk to you soon.

Voiceover: If you'd like to know more about John Curry services, you can request a complimentary information package by visiting Johnhcurry.com/book. Again, that is Johnhcurry.com/book. Or you can call our office at 850-562-3000. Again, that number is 850-562-3000. John Curry, chartered life underwriter, chartered financial consultant accredited estate planner Masters in Science and financial services, certified in long term care. April Schoen and John Curry are registered representatives and financial advisors of Park Avenue Securities LLC. Securities products and advisory services are offered through Park Avenue Securities, a registered broker dealer and investment advisor. This firm is an agency of the Guardian Life Insurance Company of America, Guardian, New York New York. April Schoen is a financial representative of the Guardian Life Insurance Company of America. Guardian, New York, New York. Park Avenue securities is a wholly owned subsidiary of Guardian. North Florida Financial Corporation is not an affiliate of or subsidiary of Park Avenue Securities. Park Avenue Securities is a member of FINRA and SIPC. This material is intended for general public use. By providing this material we are not undertaking to provide investment advice or any specific individual or situation or to otherwise act in a fiduciary capacity. Please contact one of our financial professionals for guidance and information specific to your individual situation. All investments contain risk and may lose value. Past performance is not a guarantee of future results. Guardian, its subsidiaries, agents or employees do not provide legal, tax or accounting advice. Please consult your attorney, accountant and or tax advisor for advice concerning your particular circumstances. Not affiliated with the Florida Retirement System. The Living Balance Sheet and the Living Balance Sheet Logo are registered service marks of the Guardian Life Insurance Company of America, New York, New York. Copyright 2005 through 2023. This podcast is for informational purposes only. Guest speakers and their firms are not affiliated with or endorsed by Park Avenue Securities or Guardian and opinions are stated or their own. 

2022-148492 Expires December 2024.

Medicare Basics

Medicare is a complicated topic with a lot of moving parts…

But as you reach retirement age, you’ll need to make decisions about Medicare.

We all need to cover healthcare costs as we get older—there’s no avoiding it.

In this webinar, we’ll cover everything you need to know to get started with Medicare planning so you can prepare for a secure retirement. 

We’ll answer common questions about Medicare, such as: 

  • What does Medicare cover?

  • When & how do I enroll in Medicare?

  • Which Medicare option is best for me?

  • What is a special enrollment period?

  • And more

Mentioned in this episode:

Transcript

April Schoen: Hello, everyone, and good afternoon. Thank you for joining us. We're going to be talking all about Medicare today. I know, I know it's a super fun topic. But I promise we will try to keep it entertaining and not bore you to death as we go through some of this today. My name is April Schoen. And I'm sitting here today with John Curry. 

John Curry: Hello, April Schoen. How you doing? 

April: Doing great, doing great. 

John: Hi folks. 

April: So like I said, today, we're going to really be talking about what is it that you need to know about Medicare. And we kind of break this down into some key areas. We want to talk about what is Medicare? So Medicare is a very complicated topic. There's lots of moving parts to it. So we want to talk about what is Medicare. We also want to talk about the process of enrolling in Medicare. We get a lot of questions about that. In fact, John and I just spent some time with a client, longtime client this morning. She's about to be 65 in June and walking through with her what is this process going to be for her to get signed up for Medicare? There's different ways you can get Medicare. 

Do you do Original Medicare and have a supplement plan and a drug plan? Or do you go the Medicare Advantage route? So we're going to talk about both of those options. And I really think once we go through both, we talk about Original Medicare, we talk about Advantage plans, you'll have a better idea about how both work and which one will be a good fit for you. And then while this isn't necessarily going to be all about Medicare, we are going to talk about how do you plan for healthcare costs in retirement. So it's not just Medicare, but it's all these other costs that might be involved as well. 

So before we kind of get into the presentation, I do have a little bit of a disclosure for you. And that is that John and I are not licensed to sell Medicare plans. So this will not be a sales pitch. You will not be, we are not going to be trying to sell you any sort of Medicare plan today, because John and I have chosen to not be licensed in those areas. What we do, though, is John and I typically help clients who are getting ready to retire. Many, we're located in Tallahassee, and many of our clients are retiring from the state of Florida. And we find that our clients have a lot of the same questions when it comes to retirement. And guess what Medicare is a big part of that. 

I would say the biggest two questions that we get from clients is usually having to do with their Social Security benefits, right? When did they take it? When's the best time for them to take it to optimize their benefits? And what are they going to do about health care in retirement? That could be Medicare, that could be them retiring at 62? And what do they do to bridge the gap for health care. But really, what we do is we help our clients understand what all their options are when it comes to retirement, because there's a lot of decisions you have to make. 

Not only decisions when it comes to Medicare, but what are you gonna do about Social Security? What's your income really going to look like in retirement? What are you going to do about taxes and required minimum distributions and inflation that we're hearing a lot about in the news these days, or the market, right. So those are all the things that we help our clients with. But today, we're really going to center in we're going to focus on one piece of the puzzle. And that's going to be about Medicare and health care in retirement.

John: And we're going to attempt because there's so much information here. Some of this, we might just hit and somebody, April might say I wish you'd spent more time on that. But there's a lot of stuff here. So we're gonna give you an overview. And then we would invite you that if you have specific questions to get with us. We can do a telephone appointment, and we can come in face to face whatever works for you. But we're going to attempt to take a very, very big, broad information topic and simplify it and give you some bite-sized pieces based on our experiences. Mine of 47 years and April I think yours is 12 years now, I believe. 

April: Absolutely.

John: So you've got a lot of experience here. And we deal with people every day that we choose to work, we're dealing with people who these are topics that we've been discussing for many, many years.

April: Absolutely. And, John, I think actually, it'd be a great time for you to tell a little bit about your story. So one of the great things about having John on the call today is John's on Medicare, so he can share with you his personal experiences with Medicare. And especially for those of you that don't know some things that happened with John last year from a health perspective, and I think it'd be great, John, if you share a little bit about your experience with Medicare because that's so important.

John: Any particular thing you want me to hit?

April: Well, you know, I would think you know, whatever you feel like would be appropriate or you know, you're comfortable sharing about your experience last year and how Medicare and your experience with Medicare. Because I think that's, I think it's very reassuring for people to hear what you went through and to know that you were taken care of because of the planning you did with Medicare.

John: Okay. I'll start with retirement first and the decisions I had to make. So December 31st of 2018, I officially retired on paper. So that meant I had to select which pention option to take, Social Security and do I take it then at full retirement age or delay it to 70. I chose to take it at full retirement age, which for me was 66 that year. So fast forward, I had to make a choice about health care that you talked, about because that is the biggest choice for most people. Not even the retirement income so much. Most people are more worried about, hey, how do I take care of myself if I have medical problems. 

So in my case, I took Original Medicare that you'll hear about later when April explains that, plus I purchased a Medicare supplement plan. Plan F. Plan F is no longer available, the closest to it is plan G. As April pointed out, and neither one of us are licensed to sell those products. So we talk about them in a broad brush way, but we would encourage you to seek more information if you want that. But what April was referring to is, last February, I started having some extreme pain in my leg. I thought it was a nerve issue. 

But I had aneurysms in both legs. So they put stints in my legs in 2019 in the femoral artery. Long story short, what happened is, I had blood clotting in one of the stints of my leg and they went to my foot. And as it was coming back up my leg, it was basically poisoning me. And the doctor said, if we do not amputate, it will get your kidneys and you will die. So we had to go quickly. And so far other than my deductible, so I have nothing out of pocket. And I think that's what you were referring to. And I'm just gonna tell you from flat out upfront experience. If you're going to go into retirement, and do it right, sit down with us or someone like us, let them guide you, coach you, hold you by the hand and walk you through it. 

And understand the good, the bad, and the ugly of all aspects of your retirement. I can tell you with confidence that sitting across the table from April, and the whole team. Zac, at the time Jay, Audie. We had a team around us that was able to take care of clients, and I tell people all the time. For all these years I built a clientele. It's no longer my clientele, it's our clientele, because April and I work very well together. And I'm going to ask her in a moment, which is totally off the subject, the share what you tell people about how we're able to give better service because of the difference in our age and our gender. Share that.

April: Yeah, absolutely. So you know, for us, and I say we've been working with clients. And we John, I both have unique strengths, and our whole team does that we that we bring to the table. But one of the things we talk about is how you know your John's going to be 70 this year, I'm going to be 39. We both have birthdays in December. Funny enough. So that's kind of funny, but about a week apart from each other. But yeah, he's gonna be 70 I'm going to be 39. So we have different approaches from this from our age, right? We've got this generational kind of gap filled, we have the male perspective, we have the female perspective as well. So those two things together really allow us to have a great team.

John: I have the beauty part.

April: Yes, that's right. 

John: Not.

April: So you know, one of the things we talk about is you know, John's been doing this like 47 years, so almost 48. So everything that he's seen, we really be able to see what works, what doesn't work for people allows us to use that when we help our clients. And John's really good at seeing the big picture of looking at strategy. And he's great about being able to see red flags. And if there's any sort of gap or you know, something, some threats that we needed to be, to look out for.

John: Likewise, your strength is you have the ability to see things and take it at a detailed level that I don't. You have the ability to like really zoom in and get really analytical. I lovingly refer to April as the investment geek, because she loves this stuff. But I know, enough of that. We have a lot to cover.

April: Yeah a lot to cover. Let's do it. So we're going to start by just first talking about what is Medicare? So most of us, I think, you know, you know, Medicare is health insurance for people who are over age 65. And enrollment is taken care of all through the Social Security Administration. So who's eligible for Medicare? So anyone who's over age 65, that's all US citizens. And there, it is also available for some people who are under 65 if they're getting, if they're eligible first Social Security disability benefits. But today, we're just going to be focusing on people who are over age 65 and eligible for Medicare. Now, there are four parts to Medicare. And if you don't listen to anything else in our whole presentation, I hope you do, but listen to this part. Okay. This is going to be one of the most important pieces.

John: I'm going to amplify that. If all people do is listen to this and get an understanding of it, that's been a successful call.

April: Correct. Yep. So let's walk through this. I'm gonna take some time and walk through this part with you. Okay, so Medicare is divided into four parts. Part A covers the cost of hospitals, hospitalizations, okay. Part A is what you're paying into Medicare while you're working. Part B covers the medical services like doctor's visits, procedures, diagnostic tests, okay. And Parts A and B are paid for by Medicare. Now there is a premium that you pay for Part B, and we're going to talk about that a little bit later. Part C and D is when private insurance comes in. Okay, so let's talk about C first. 

C is an alternative way to get Medicare. This is also called a Medicare Advantage plan. It's usually offered by, it's gonna be offered by private insurers. And this is where you get all the services under A and B, so you get hospital coverage, you get medical services. And then usually it's going to cover some other things as well like drug coverage, and you can add on some other benefits. But instead of Medicare paying your hospital and your doctor bills, this is all going to be taken care of by the insurance company. And that plan is responsible for managing and coordinating your care. So we're going to talk about Medicare Advantage Plans later. And then Part D is prescription drug coverage. 

This is offered by private insurers who work with Medicare. And each prescription plan is a little different. So you want to shop very carefully for your drug plan. And even if you don't take prescription drugs, when you go into Medicare, you're going to want to sign up for Part D anyway, so that you do not have any penalties when you enroll. Okay, so there are four parts of Medicare. A, B, C and D. Got some alphabet soup. But really what happens when you are going to go into Medicare, you are going to have two choices. So you go with Original Medicare, which is you're going to get Parts A and B. And then you're going to add on a drug plan and you're going to add on a Medicare supplement plan to cover any of the gaps. Any of the things that Medicare does not pay for.

John: And that's what I was referring to earlier. That's what, the route I chose. Each individual can look at it, you may choose to go a different route with the Medicare Advantage, but I chose Original Medicare.

April: Correct. So really, those are the two options we're going to be talking about today. Do you go with the Original Medicare, where you get Parts A and B through Medicare and you add on drug coverage and you add on a supplement plan? Or do you go with a Medicare Advantage plan? So Medicare Advantage plan is kind of like it's all wrapped up into one.

John: Let me jump in for just a moment there. Something that we don't always talk about. But I've learned some new things because of the VA. So anyone who's listening, if you are a veteran, you definitely would want to coordinate efforts with the local VA clinic. I now have switched. And most of my prescriptions now are coming through the VA as of two weeks ago.

April: Okay. Yeah. Good to know. Yeah, it's great. So these are really the choices you're going to have about is it Original Medicare or Medicare Advantage plan. And we're gonna get into both of these in more detail a little bit later on in the presentation. But this is a big decision. I will tell you that Medicare does allow you to make some changes from one to the other. But it's very limited. You can't flip flop. So don't think that you can just go back and forth between the two because there's some restrictions about when you can and can't do that. Now, one of the main things we want to watch out for on Medicare is to make sure that you avoid penalties, right. And there's definitely some pitfalls when it comes to signing up for Medicare. So we're going to go through that. And the one of the biggest things we want to make sure that you do is that you enroll on time. This is a very big deal.

John: How many times have we seen that where people are scrambling because it was last minute.

April: We see it a lot, and people because again, think about we just talked about four parts to Medicare. So it's not just us sometimes sign up for one and you're done. Sometimes you have to sign up for different parts at different times. So we're going to walk you through this and if you have any questions, let us know but this is one of the biggies with Medicare so we want to make sure that you enroll on top. The main principle is that unless you're covered by a group plan that covers 20 or more employees, you must enroll in Medicare when you turn 65. 

Okay, so sometimes people think that they have a choice, sometimes you do, and sometimes you don't. But if you are not covered by a group plan that covers 20 or more employees, you must enroll in Medicare when you're 65. Now that coverage, that health insurance coverage could be from your employer, but it also can be a group plan if you're on like your spouse's insurance as well.

John: That was my situation. I stayed on a company group plan from 65 to 66 before I signed up for Medicare Part B. Our plan allowed me to do Part A. Some plans don't if you're going to stay on the group plan. So what April's saying is, it's very important to make sure that your plan document allows you to do certain things. You don't want to take the risk of losing some coverage.

April: Absolutely. Because what are the pitfalls if you don't enroll in time? Well, there's a couple that we talked about. One is you're going to have late enrollment penalties. Medicare's going to be like, hey, where were you? Why weren't you on Medicare when you needed to be. We're now going to charge you a penalty. We're going to slap you on the wrist, we're going to charge you a penalty for not enrolling on time. But here is the kicker. That penalty is for the rest of your life. It's not like you get a penalty once and you're done. No, no, you have to pay this penalty for the rest of your life. This is very important. You may also have health care expenses that are not covered. 

Because a lot of times when you're 65, if you're not covered in this group plan, then Medicare is supposed to be your primary payer. And so other insurance may not pay if Medicare isn't paid first, but you got to be signed up for Medicare for Medicare to pay first. So make sure that you get enrolled on time. And then of course, you really don't want to have any gaps in coverage either. No one wants to have gaps in health insurance coverage. And you want to make sure that you have all the options available to you. Because if you go into Medicare during one of your enrollment periods, the insurers have to take you they can't make any changes. But if you don't, they can decline you. 

So make sure that you sign up on time. So how do you enroll in Medicare? Well, we kind of break this down into a couple of different categories. But if you're receiving Social Security benefits when you turn 65, then you're automatically going to be enrolled in Parts A and B. Automatically. Now you can decline Part B if you don't need it at that point. But if you're receiving Social Security at 65, you're going to go ahead and be enrolled in Part A and Part B. And coverage begins the first of the month, you turn 65. And then when we were talking about earlier about having a drug plan or Medicare Advantage plan, those are through private insurers, and you're going to have to proactively enroll in those plans. 

So if you're not receiving Social Security at 65. A lot of people are working longer now. 65 isn't even full retirement age for most people anymore, right. So we're, a lot of people do delay taking Social Security past 65. So in that case, you need to proactively sign up for Medicare during one of your enrollment periods. You have an initial enrollment period when you turn 65, you're going to have a special enrollment period, and then there's a general enrollment period. So let's kind of walk through these.

John: Could you confuse me a little bit more, please. Why does Medicare and Social Security make things so complicated? April started off by saying a lot of moving parts. And it truly is. The slide here cracks me up. So I'm glad you have this one.

April: Yes. Here's the main thing that we want to talk about here. Medicare is supposed to start when you turn 65. And ideally, it's supposed to start at the first of the month when you turn 65. So our client we met with this morning, she turns 65 in the middle of June, her coverage is supposed to start on the first of June. But when you sign up is going to depend on when your coverage starts. And they do give you several months for you to sign up. So depending on when you sign up is when your coverage will begin. So who needs, again, we talked about there's multiple parts to Medicare. So who needs to start signing up for Part A during your initial enrollment period? 

Again, the initial enrollment period is when you turn 65. So most people need to enroll in Part A and again that's hospital coverage when they turn 65. But if you are still covered by a group plan that has 20 or more employees, then check with your benefits administrator, okay. They may tell you go ahead and sign up for Part A, or they may tell you that you can wait. Okay, a lot of people do choose to go ahead and sign up for Part A, because there's no cost to it right, you've already been paying into Medicare Part A while you've been working. And sometimes that hospital coverage is more comprehensive than your group plan. But also know that you cannot contribute to an HSA and be enrolled in Medicare at the same time. 

So be aware of that. If you have if you're contributing to an HSA, you're gonna have to stop that when you sign up for Medicare. Now, if you're not covered by a group plan, you're gonna hear that a lot. If you're not covered by a group land that has 20 or more employees when you turn 65, then you need to go ahead and sign up for Part B for Medicare. And again, that's what takes care of medical services, doctor's visits, procedures, things like that. So let's talk about some examples for people who need to sign up for Part B, when they're 65. If you're not working, so if you're already retired, if you're self-employed, if you have a company with less than 20 employees, if you're on COBRA, you have retiree health benefits, okay. 

Or if you don't have a plan that's as comprehensive as Medicare, you can choose to go ahead and go on Medicare. So the client we met with this morning, she retired a couple of years ago, she is on her previous employer's retiree health benefits, okay. She retired to the state of Florida. And she's gonna have to go ahead and sign up now that she's 65 so that she can get on Medicare. So she's gonna have to sign up for A and B, and then she has the same choice. She's got to choose if she's going to do Original Medicare, or if she's going to do that Medicare Supplement plan. Now, Part D, remember that is for prescription drug coverage. 

So again, if you're, if you're in your initial enrollment period, you're age 65, and you're not covered by a group plan, you want to go ahead and make sure that you have your Part D, which is going to be the drug plan, or you're going to do the Medicare Advantage plan, because that's going to go ahead and cover your drug coverage as well. Here's the important part about Part D. Medicare gives you 63 days to sign up for Medicare Part D, to have prescription drug plan, or that's when you have a late enrollment penalty. So let's give you an example. Let's say that you were going to retire on May 31. And you're walking out the door and you're over 65. Medicare says you have 63 days from May 31st to have a prescription drug plan or you're going to have a penalty. So that's why it's so important to make sure you know what your options are and what you're gonna do before you need to.

John: Can I make a comment there? I've been taking a look every year at my Part D, my drug plan, and we have made a change every year during the open enrollment, because depending upon the prescriptions you're taking, one plan may be better than another. One provider, same plan, D, but different providers.

April: Right. Great point, you have to look at every year. That part D the prescription drug, it's not set it and forget it, you have to look at it every year. Talking about really the initial enrollment period, which is again when you turn 65. But now we're going to talk about a special enrollment period. And this is for people who were covered by a group plan when they turned 65. And so these people you're not going to be penalized for not enrolling in Medicare, but you need to make sure you sign up for your special enrollment period. And the best time to sign up is before your current coverage ends. 

That way you don't have any gaps in coverage. And you do have a grace period for several months. But you want to make sure that you don't have any gaps in coverage and you don't have to worry about not signing up on time. So this is for people who are retiring after they turn 65. Okay, so again, I gave the example someone's retiring May 31st. And let's just say you're 67 years old. Well, you want to know when does your health insurance coverage end? Does it end May 31st, does it in next month on June 30th? When does your health insurance end so that you know when you need to be on Medicare. 

So for a lot, especially retiring from the state, I'll give that as an example. If you retire May 31st, you've actually paid for health insurance through June. So then you don't need to have Medicare start until July 1st. On the other hand, if you are a faculty and you're a professor at a college, you may not have to sign up until, have Medicare until September or October, if depending on how your pay is done throughout the year. So you really want to check with your benefits administrator and your human resources department to know if you're retiring, when does your health insurance end so that you can sign up on time. 

And Medicare does give you eight months from the time you retire or your coverage ends to sign up for Part B. But again, you don't want to have any gaps in coverage. So just go ahead and whatever day your coverage is going to end, make sure you're signed up for Medicare. And the same thing for Part D. They only give you 63 days. Again, I don't know why they do eight months for Part B and 63 days for Part D, but they give you a much shorter time. But again, no one really wants to have a gap in coverage.

John: May I be real blunt. Don't procrastinate. Just get it done. Don't take that risk. Because if you have medical issues and you fall out of favor of this thing is going to cost you 10s if not hundreds of 1000s of dollars. If you have an event like this amputation last year, I have, I don't even know how much has been spent. I know over $700,000 so far. And without Medicare and proper plan health coverage on top of that as a supplement plan, I would be paying a lot of money out of pocket.

April: Right. So important. One other thing on the Part D coverage, I mentioned this earlier, but I want to just circle back on it. Even if you are, you know you're going on Medicare and I had someone the other day actually on Monday said well I don't take any prescription drugs. So you still have to sign up for Part D. You may just want to shop it around and do like the lowest cost one you can. But even if you're not taking prescription drugs, you still want to sign up for Part D so that you don't have a penalty later when you do go to sign up.

John: And if you live long enough, you will be taking some type of prescription drugs.

April: Yep. So the best time to enroll in Medicare is during your initial enrollment period. And that's when you turn 65. They give you three months before you turn 65, the month you turn 65, and three months after. They give you seven months to sign up, or your special enrollment period, that's when your coverage ends. So make sure you sign up in those two timeframes so that you don't have penalties and there's no gaps in coverage. However, if you did not do any of that, if you didn't sign up when you were supposed to, you never attended this webinar, and no one ever told you you needed to sign up for Medicare. Medicare does have a general enrollment period every single year from January to March.

John: So what you're really saying is wait, there's more.

April: Wait, there's more. It's so funny to me. And trust me, you're gonna know you need to sign up. Because if you're close to 65, I can promise you, you're probably already getting inundated with all the calls and the postcards and the letters to sign up for Medicare.

John: Correct. It never ends. I'm still getting that stuff.

April: But they do have a general enrollment just in case. Okay, so how do you sign up? Very easy to do this, you can actually just go to the Social Security's website, you go to ssa.gov. And you click the button that says apply for Medicare benefits. Or you can call Social Security directly. So this is how you sign up for Parts A and for Parts B. 

John: Even I did it.

April: I know you did it. Okay. And then for Part D for this drug coverage, this is when you're going to want to shop it around. So when you're going to get your drug coverage, you do need to know are you going with Original Medicare, or are you going to go with a Medicare Advantage plan. And that's how you're gonna decide which way you're gonna go. But you're gonna want to shop around and you have to proactively sign up for Part D through a private insurer. Okay, so that's how you get Part D. So let's talk about Medicare and private insurance. So the first things we're going to talk about are what are the out-of-pocket costs that are paid by you for Medicare, okay, and they fall really into two different categories. We've got premiums, and then we have other out-of-pocket costs. 

So other out-of-pocket costs include deductibles, portions of doctor bills that are not paid by Medicare, and any other service that's not paid by Medicare. Now, there are different premiums. So for Part A, this is usually no costs for Part A, as long as you are, as long as you are eligible for Social Security and Medicare. There's no premium for Part A. And the way this breaks down is as long as you or your spouse have at least 10 years of work history, then you should qualify for both Social Security and Medicare. 

So there's usually no cost for Part A. Now, Part B the base premium for 2022 is $170.10 per month. Okay, that's the base premium. And the reason that I say it's the base premium is because depending on your income, your Medicare premiums can go up. So a lot of people don't realize that. That your Medicare premiums are actually driven by your income. So the higher income that you have, the more your Medicare premiums are. And we're going to talk about that in a few minutes, as well. 

And this premium is also adjusted every year for inflation. So like this year, it went up. And so you know, every year you have to pay attention to see what the Medicare premiums are going to be. And then for the Part D for the drug plan, this is it's going to vary by plan. So it just depends on what which plan you sign up for is how much the premium is going to be. But this can also be adjusted for your income as well.

John: What's interesting is you pay for Part D, and you have a supplement plan. I look at that and I go that's not right. That's the way the system is and we have to follow the rules.

April: This, what we're going to talk about next is what's called IRMAA, and this is called income-related adjustment amounts. And so guys, we talked about how you have a base premium for Medicare for Part B and Part D. But if your income falls, and to certain categories, you're going to pay a higher premium. So this year for 2022, if you file single and your income is over 91,000, then you're going to pay more than that base premiums. And if you are you married filing jointly and your joint income is over 182,000, then you're going to pay more in Medicare premiums for Part B and for Part D. 

Okay, so these are also adjusted every year for inflation. So this is something we really want to pay attention to. The other thing that Medicare looks at is they actually have a two-year look back. So for 2022, they're looking at income from 2020's tax return. Okay, so this is something we really want to pay attention to, when we're working with clients, and we want to try to forecast out, you know, when someone's 65, it may not be a problem yet, but by the time they turn 72 and have to start taking required minimum distributions or taking income from retirement accounts, this can all add to your taxable income, and can cause you to pay more in Medicare premiums. 

Outside of premiums, you're going to have these other out-of-pocket costs, and one of them's going to be deductibles. So this is what, so deductibles is what is going to need to come into your own pocket first before Medicare starts paying. Now, some private insurance plans can cover this, this is where that private insurance comes in. And we'll talk about that in a few minutes. But there are deductibles for Part A for Parts B and for Parts D.

John: And when you get on Part D, depending upon what plan medication you're taking, I have to take Eliquis because of the surgery so that when I'm in that deductible period, it cost me $131. $131 for one month's supply of Eliquis. When I'm in the plan it's only $42. I bought some yesterday.

April: I know, that's why it's so important to pay attention to all those details. A lot of moving parts. Okay, after you've met your deductibles, then you're going to have some coinsurance because again, Medicare does not pay for everything. So Medicare pays for 20 days of skilled nursing care. And then there's costs after that. For Part B, that you're responsible for 20% of the Medicare approved costs, okay, for those doctors that work with Medicare. And again, this is where those private insurance plans come in. Because there are a lot of gaps in coverage things that Medicare does not pay for. And then as John was just mentioning about Part D, really understanding how the drug plan works. 

Because you've got a deductible, you have to pay first, then you've got to pay 25% of drug costs after the deductible has been paid. And then you can have another co-payment after that after your spending is so much for the year. Okay. And then they have something called a doughnut hole. So as John was mentioning, there's a point where you're not in the plan anymore, and you have to pay more out of pocket. So we really want to pay attention to how that, make sure you understand how that drug plan works. 

So what does Medicare cover? Because after you look at all of these things that you have to pay. You might be wondering, what does Medicare actually pay for? Well, it covers 60 days, first 60 days of hospitalizations, minus the deductible, of course. It covers 80% of your doctor bills and some preventative services. Now there's a book you can get from Medicare called Medicare and You. They update it every single year. I highly recommend you go download this book, so that you can see exactly what's covered and what is not covered by Medicare.

John: And you'll get one mailed to you every year. Now, I'm a geek about that stuff. I actually read mine.

April: Good! So in fact, if you do look at it, there's about 20 pages, and where Medicare is talking about what it covers, and only one page that talks about what it doesn't cover. Okay. But here's the thing, when we're going to talk about what Medicare doesn't cover, they don't pay for any of it. There's no partial payments, there's no coverage whatsoever. So we're gonna go through this list. Now, some of these, you're going to look at and say, hey, I don't need because I'm not gonna have cosmetic surgery, or maybe I'm not gonna travel outside the US. But some of these things are very necessary. So here's what Medicare does not cover. Chronic extended care, care delivered outside the US, dental, vision, hearing aids, any sort of cosmetic surgery, acupuncture, alternative care, okay. 

And then we talked about earlier, there may be things that are not approved by Medicare to pay for, or anything outside of those deductibles and coinsurance. So this is really where private insurance comes in to cover in those gaps. And you can have private insurance help you with the deductibles, help you with the coinsurance and also, as we mentioned about the drug coverage as well, this is where it really comes down to which plan are you going to go with. Are you going to do Original Medicare or are you going to do a Medicare Advantage plan? So if you go with Original Medicare, that's when you're going to have, Original Medicare, is you get Parts A and B, you're going to add on the drug plan, and you're going to add on a supplement plan. 

These are also sometimes called Medigap policies, because they fill in the gaps that Medicare doesn't cover. Now they are, these plans are not affiliated with Medicare, right. These are offered through private insurance companies. But they do have to follow certain state and federal laws to make sure that you're protected. So let's talk a little bit about the Medigap policies. Okay, so the Medigap policies, again, these, the actual policy itself, they're all standardized. They're all set up by Medicare about what has to be covered and how the plan actually works. So there's a couple things you want to do. You want to first look at the different plan options and decide which plan do you want. 

And then you want to shop it between different insurers, because you can have different premiums based on location, based on which company you go with. So you really want to make sure that you're shopping this around. And while we don't have time to go into too much depth here, this is just really when you want to make sure you do your own research to understand all the different plans available to you, and what works for you. Now, the opposite of that is the Medicare Advantage plans. Again, we were just talking about the Medicare Supplement where you get Parts A and B, you add on the supplement you add on drug coverage. That's Original Medicare. The other option is a Medicare Advantage plan. And this is also offered through private insurance companies and they work with Medicare. 

And Medicare pays for you know, certain parts right, and then you're really going to be adding on this additional coverage that you would like to have. So this is going to include prescription drugs, you might be, you want to add on like dental or vision as well. And again, same thing for here, you really want to make sure that you shop it around by companies to make sure you understand what is covered and what's not. Now here's the big difference with Medicare Advantage plans. Usually you're going to have a network of doctors or hospitals that are part of the Medicare Advantage plan that you need to work with. 

So this is going to vary by your location. Okay, so you want to know what's available in your area. And again, we want to make sure that we're shopping these around. So if we're looking at Medicare supplement plans, we want to choose which plan is the for the coverage that you need. You want to make sure that you're working with a company that's going to actually handle all the billing for you that you don't have to do it on your own. And you want to shop around between different companies to make sure you're not overpaying for the same plan. And then those Medicare Advantage plans. 

Just make sure that you choose the coverage that you need. Because if you go with a Medicare Advantage plan like they're gonna have several different options available for you too. Just as the supplement plans have different plans, okay, and they'll have a letter attached to them. Sometimes again, we call that the alphabet soup. But a Medicare Advantage plan in the same way, they're going to have different tiers different levels of coverage. And that's going to determine how much your premium is and how much, what you're going to be paying out of pocket. 

Now let's talk a little bit about overall healthcare costs in retirement because Medicare obviously is part of it. But it's not everything that you're going to be paying for when it comes to your health care in retirement. So let's talk about this a little bit. So one of the things that we want to make sure that we pay attention to is to think about rising costs in health insurance. So what can cause your healthcare budget to change? Well really, it comes down to kind of two things. Inflation, so it's just the cost of goods and services going up over time, right. We all know, the research tells us that inflation for healthcare is usually higher than the normal CPI that we're told in the media, right? Healthcare inflation is higher than normal inflation. 

So we've got a plan for having higher costs in retirement over time. The other thing that can cause your healthcare change is getting sick, right? Getting hurt, getting sick, something happening, where you need more care, you need more medications. Now, we talked about John situation last year. Okay, that was a life-changing event for John in more than one ways, but that causes extra things to happen now, right? It's a snowball effect and causes other things to happen.

John: And if I didn't have the planning in place, April, we're been throwing a lot of information out here. Here's the bottom line. It takes a plan that is adjustable, so that if you have a mishap like mine, that was not planned, there was no way to plan for that. But without proper planning, I could find myself taking money out of retirement accounts in a market that currently is down. So then I not only did I have increasing health care costs, I have depleting assets, whether it be retirement money or savings, investments at a bad time. 

We don't want to take money out when it's down, we want to leave it alone. So this is so important that people think, oh, it's just a Medicare discussion. No, it's not. It's your entire pre-retirement planning, and your post-retirement for the rest of your life, whatever that is. And for most people, it's going to be longer than they think. And I've got something that will be living with me for the rest of my life. There will be healthcare costs that are much higher than I had originally thought.

April: And that's why it's so important to plan for those. Plan for having higher costs in retirement.

John: Correct. And a way to pay for it. 

April: And a way to pay for it.

John: Because you know, is going up. So the question is, how do I pay for it? Because they will take the money out of your Social Security check. Because I feel that every month. So what do you do? If that's not enough money?

April: Absolutely. And it's kind of funny that you bring that up. So actually, there's some research that has shown like, hey, how much is how much why should people need when it comes to retirement? From the start retirement to pay for future medical costs?

John: I've already blown through those numbers.

April: That's right. Well, these are averages, John, so some are higher, some are lower. 

John: So you're telling me I'm above average. You're making me feel better.

April: You are above average, congratulations. So Fidelity did some research and they say for couples, they're going to need about, on average, about 300,000 to cover for all health care expenses, right? That could be medical expenses, chronic care, things like that. And then there was the Employee Benefit Research Institute, and they have some different numbers for men, for women and for couples. And then one thing you can do too, is to start thinking about your own situation. Because these are averages. So we've got to start thinking about your own personal situation. You know, thinking about your life expectancy. 

We've talked about this a lot with people. I was talking with a client recently and her mother's 95 years old. Okay, so she's gonna be retiring this year, and she's gonna be about 65. Hey, guess what, she has longevity on her side. And she even mentioned before I it brought up. She said oh, yeah, and I live a much healthier life than my mother did. Absolutely. So, she's going to live a very long time into retirement. If that's on her side, the numbers the research says that she's going to have a long life in front of her. So we've got to plan for some of those things. And we're living a long time. You know, what we also may have to plan for having higher costs for health care because of family history, right? 

So it's important to kind of know what averages are but also put it into context for you. And the other thing that we need to do too, is plan for or chronic extended care. That's kind of a mouthful. So we're not really necessarily just talking about going to a nursing home, although that's what a lot of people think of. But chronic care can range. It can be someone coming in the home a few hours a week to help with things, and then obviously can help with as someone progresses, having more of that skilled nursing care.

John: I had to have that, because once I got out of the rehab hospital, I then had to have someone coming to check on me. In this case, it was a nursing, and the skill part to make sure I was okay. And you what I thought the first time I thought I was being interrogated, because people are coming and checking on me looking at my house, making sure it's safe and secure. They're doing their jobs. And it was very, it was very nice the way they did it. But it still felt like an intrusion a little bit. You know what I mean? You're prying into my personal life here. But they had to know certain things to make sure I was safe in that environment.

April: Yeah, and it's, you said earlier about medications that you live long enough, you're gonna have medications. Well, guess what, you live long enough, you're gonna have to have some sort of care. We dealt with that with my grandmother as she got older, of having someone and it was exactly what we just talked about, about. It's not just nursing home care, but it was first having someone come in to help her prepare meals and get a shower and make sure she's taking her medications and things like that. And as things progressed for her, having more of that, that nursing care when she needed it. And that's something again, it's not covered by Medicare. So you have to make sure that you have a plan for it. 

And we all know this. I'm sure if you're listening to this that you have a personal experience with this. Maybe you've seen a parent go through it or a grandparent or friend. John and I can tell you countless stories into their clients or their family and what they're dealing with right now. And going through this. So we all know that it's an expense. And as John mentioned, it's important to make sure we plan for it. Okay, the worst thing you can do is stick your head in the sand and pretend it's not going to happen to you. Because the truth is, again, if you live long enough, it's going to. So better to plan for it. And then know if, um, and then have, you know better a plan for it and know what you're gonna have there.

John: You know what I'm thinking when you said put your head in the sand, right? 

April: What's that?

John: The ostrich. Put your head in the sand and your rear end is exposed. So pay attention to what the hell you're doing. And don't do it blindsided.

April: Absolutely. So let's just wrap up here. Let's talk about some reminders from Medicare. The first one is you want to make sure you enroll on time. I think we kind of hit that pretty hard about making sure you enroll on time. And then the second big key here is really when you need to decide first, which way of Medicare you're gonna go. Is it going to be that Original Medicare? Is it gonna be the Medicare Advantage plan? Which way are you going to go? And then want to shop carefully with different private insurance companies to make sure you have the plan, the coverage you need, and that you're not overpaying for coverage. And then the third reminder is to plan for higher healthcare costs in retirement. 

Okay. Again, the research says healthcare is going to be one of the biggest expenses that we have when it comes to retirement. It's more than housing. Okay. That's what the research says. We pay more for health care than housing in retirement. So we want to make sure that you've got a plan for how to pay for that. Now, today, we went through and we talked about a lot of different things when it comes to Medicare. Medicare is very complicated. There's a lot of different moving parts. Okay, so one of the things that I would suggest is that we schedule a time for a strategy session. So the strategy session, what we're going to do, they're usually about 30-45 minutes. And what we do during a strategy session is we first want to get clarity about your current situation. 

So we're going to talk about your goals, your concerns, what are you trying to accomplish? We will talk about what opportunities are available to you, okay. What's holding you back what roadblocks are in your way? And then what specific steps do you need to take to help you save time and money and also get the results that you want? Okay, because there is no dress rehearsal for this right? This is a we only we only have one shot at it. So we want to make sure that you're set up the way you would like to be for retirement. Okay, so we can help you with these questions when it comes to Medicare. 

Again, John and I are not licensed for Medicare, but we can help walk you through the two options. Help walk you through certain pitfalls when it comes to Medicare, and talk about some of those other questions we mentioned earlier, that are very common that we get from people when it comes to retirement planning. So one of the things on this strategy session is that I know John, and I we are not a fit for everyone, okay? And I'm not sure like if you're listening to this, if we're a good fit for you or not, but if we do have a call, we have this 30 to 45 minute call, we will be able to determine, hey, are we a good fit to work together. 

So this call is for you, if you're motivated, you know, if you are committed, you've got goals and you want to make sure that you reach those, you want to have this lifestyle in retirement that you want. If you're coachable, if you're open-minded, and you're willing to learn, those are some reasons why this call would be a good fit for you. And if this call is not for you, if you're not coachable, if you're not willing to listen to other ideas, or if you're just expecting some unpaid consulting. So there's a couple of different ways to schedule a call. 

You can call our office directly 850-562-3000. And you'll speak with Zac or with Crystal and let them know you were on the webinar, or you heard our podcast, and would like to schedule a call, a complimentary strategy session. Okay, so you can call our office 850-562-3000. Or you can book it directly through our website as well. johnhcurry.com/call. It's johnhcurry.com/call. And what I'll do too John is usually we get a lot of questions about Medicare, and most people want to see the slides. So I'm gonna try and kind of get that out to everybody who was on the call. And I'll include that link, too. So it's going to make it easy for them to schedule their calls.

John: Well, even though we've covered this topic many times, I'm sitting here underlining stuff, putting asterisks by it. There's some things here that I want to go back in and refresh, also, because I get that book every year and I sit down read it. There's a lot of stuff in there that I'd much prefer you made a comment that was key, having clarity, saving time and money. 

April: Absolutely. 

John: For me, I don't want to have to do everything myself. I have coaches around me that would do some things and guide me and coach me. And that saves a lot of time and money and energy. And that's really what we do for people. And I would encourage people to do the strategy session, find out what their situation is. And if we're a fit, great. We'd be happy to help them. Doesn't matter where they live. Tallahassee, on the moon. As long as you got a phone and a computer, we can help.

April: That's right. Good. Well, thank you everyone for joining us on the call today. I hope you learned something and we hope to talk to you all very soon. Bye bye. 

John: Goodbye.

Voiceover: If you'd like to know more about John Curry services, you can request a complimentary information package by visiting Johnhcurry.com/book. Again, that is Johnhcurry.com/book. Or you can call our office at 850-562-3000. Again, that number is 850-562-3000. John Curry, chartered life underwriter, chartered financial consultant accredited estate planner Masters in Science and financial services, certified in long term care. April Schoen and John Curry are registered representatives and financial advisors of Park Avenue Securities LLC. Securities products and advisory services are offered through Park Avenue Securities, a registered broker dealer and investment advisor. This firm is an agency of the Guardian Life Insurance Company of America, Guardian, New York New York. April Schoen is a financial representative of the Guardian Life Insurance Company of America. Guardian, New York, New York. Park Avenue securities is a wholly owned subsidiary of guardian, North Florida Financial Corporation is not an affiliate of or subsidiary of Park Avenue Securities. Park Avenue Securities is a member of FINRA and SIPC. This material is intended for general public use. By providing this material we are not undertaking to provide investment advice or any specific individual or situation or to otherwise act in a fiduciary capacity. Please contact one of our financial professionals for guidance and information specific to your individual situation. All investments contain risk and may lose value. Past performance is not a guarantee of future results. Guardian, its subsidiaries, agents or employees do not provide legal, tax or accounting advice. Please consult your attorney, accountant and or tax advisor for advice concerning your particular circumstances. Not affiliated with the Florida Retirement System. The Living Balance Sheet and the Living Balance Sheet Logo are registered service marks of the Guardian Life Insurance Company of America, New York, New York. Copyright 2005 through 2022. This podcast is for informational purposes only. Guest speakers and their firms are not affiliated with or endorsed by Park Avenue Securities or Guardian and opinions are stated or their own.

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Tax Diversification in Retirement

Many people make decisions about taxes in a vacuum…

But taxes have a significant impact on your finances in retirement.

The good news is that there are proven strategies to optimize your income so you can minimize your taxes.

In this podcast, we’ll show you how tax diversification can help you build a secure retirement.

Listen to learn:

  • How tax rates will change in the future

  • Why it’s a myth that you’ll have less income in retirement

  • How different types of investments are taxed

  • The difference between tax-deferred accounts, tax-favored accounts, and taxable accounts

  • How to achieve tax diversification

  • The impact taxes will have on your income

  • The essential facts about Roth IRAs

  • How you can use cash value life insurance as tax-free income in retirement

  • And more

Mentioned in this episode:

Transcript

April Schoen: Hello, everyone, and welcome. I'm so glad that you are joining us today. My name is April Schoen. And today we're going to talk all about taxes. Oh, I know such a fun topic, right? I promise not to make it too boring for you. But listen, taxes is something that we need to talk about, especially when it comes to retirement. Because unfortunately, we see a lot of people who make decisions about their taxes in a vacuum. Okay, without taking into consideration the whole picture, we are so guilty of letting the tax tail wag the economic dog. Let me say that one more time. We are so guilty of letting the tax tail wag the economic dog. That means we're so focused on taxes today, that we don't really take into consideration the big picture. And we actually can end up doing some reverse tax planning. That means we're deferring taxes today at a lower rate, only to pay higher taxes later, right. 


So definitely not an ideal situation, not something that we want to do. But it is something that we see that happens when we don't think about it. And here's why this is so important that the decisions you make today will determine your destiny. Write that down. The decisions you make today will determine your destiny. Now, I cannot believe here we are at the end of April of 2022. And it's hard to imagine that two years ago is when COVID first started. I feel like so much has changed in the last two years. But I was just thinking the other day I was talking about with a friend of mine. How when when COVID first started in March of 2020, and how the whole world was shut down. 


And I just, I remember what that felt like. I remember all the uncertainty and the fear, right? All these concerns that we had about our health, and our loved ones. Concerned over the state of the economy. What did this all really mean? What was going to happen? And what would the future hold? Well, as fate would have it right before COVID, I hired a coach. She's a business coach for women. And I hired her actually funny enough, to help me with my public speaking. Because before COVID, John and I did a lot of live seminars in our training room here in Tallahassee. We'd have 80, 90, sometimes over 100 people. And so I hired her to help me with my public speaking. But I got so much more. And I'm so grateful that I hired her. I knew, let me be honest, too. 


So I hired her in February, then COVID hit. And if I'm being honest, I really debated keeping her as a coach because I was paying her monthly, right. So there's an investment that I was making in myself, but I was paying her monthly. And there was just a lot going on. We didn't know what was going to happen with the economy. We didn't know what was going to happen with my career, with my husband's career. So I almost stopped working with her. But I'm so glad that I didn't. So she's a business coach for women, like I said, and she was great to have someone that I could lean on. Someone I could bounce ideas off of. She's been a coach for 30 years. And her experience, her perspective in working with countless other business owners was invaluable to me at that time. And she was, she was well worth the investment. In fact, I'm still benefiting from some of the work we did together now over two years ago. 


And I'm telling you all of this, because I think we've all been there in that place of uncertainty. In fact, you might be feeling that now. Right? As you're thinking about what is retirement going to look like for you. Are you ready to retire? When will you know that you're really ready to retire? Not to mention all this uncertainty we have in the world today around inflation. Inflation is the highest it's been in 40 years. We've got interest rates rising. Look at the market as of Monday, the stock market, the S&P was down 10% year to date. But the most shocking thing is bonds are down 9% year to date. And we're only at the end of April, right. And then you throw on top of it some of that geopolitical risk that we're seeing right, that we're seeing over in Russia and we're seeing over in Ukraine. 


So that's why I'm telling you all of this because I know we've all been there in that place of uncertainty. And it really helps to have a team, have people around you that can help you get through that and help you, you know don't have bounce ideas off of. I was just talking with a new client yesterday. And she was telling me it's actually something we're going to talk about today, it has to do with Roth IRAs and Roth conversions. And I was we're kind of talking through it. And I helped her with a few things because she was like, oh, I'm gonna do this, this and this. And I said, great. Have you thought about how that's going to impact your Medicare premiums. Have you thought about, you can't contribute to a Roth once you stop working. So these were some things that she wasn't aware of, that we were able to walk through, okay. And that comes from having that, that experience. 


So before we get into all of the things today, because really, today, we're gonna be talking about taxes. We're gonna talk about taxes in retirement, we're gonna talk about how you can create your own secure retirement. And what I mean by that is your retirement, not my retirement, not your neighbor's retirement, not your co workers retirement, but your own retirement, okay? And what makes it secure isn't just that you have money, but it's that you have money coming in for the things that you want in your life. So before we get started, I want to tell you just a little bit about me and John. 


So John, and I, we're business partners, we work together. And John is amazing. He's been doing this, helping clients for over 47 years, okay, this year, we'll be going into 48. And he's really great at the strategy. He's great at being able to see someone's plan and spotting those red flags, if there are any, he's great. He can see what works, what doesn't work for people. And he can, kind of like I said, see those red flags, and if there's any point of weakness. And that really comes from him being in the business for so long, from doing this for 47 years, and helping 1000s of clients at this point in his career. Now, for me, you know, John's got me beat by a few years. I've been doing this for about 12, since about 2010. And one of the things that I really try to help my clients with is understanding what it is that they really want, what is it that you want? And what's holding you back from getting there? Okay? 


Because if we can take the time at the beginning to get to know you, get to know why are you doing this? What is it that you want your money to do for you? Then it helps us actually kind of create that plan for you. And what we find is that most advisors won't do that. They won't take the time to really get to know you. You know, they're gonna show you some charts and sell you a product. But what we want to do first is get to know you, and why you're doing this, and what is it that you really want? And how can we help you get there. And that's why I feel we have a very efficient team. Not only do we have the male and female perspective, but we also cover some age gaps. I'm 38, John will be 70 this year. So we have a lot of different perspectives that we can bring to the table. And also just how we approach planning. I kind of usually say you got the head and the heart working for you. 


So what before we get to get into the material, I do want to ask you a few questions to kind of get you start thinking about this tax situation. So my first question is, how do you feel about current tax rates? Do you think that tax rates in the future are going to be the same? Are they going to go up? Or are they going to go down? And then what about your income in retirement? Is your income going to be the same? Is it going to go up? Or is it going to go down? These are really two questions that we have to answer before we can kind of talk about more of the tax pieces. Now, let's be honest, we don't have a crystal ball. We don't know what tax rates are going to be in the future. But I can tell you this sentiment, I can tell you when I ask people in client meetings, clients this question, how do you feel about current tax rates? 


Almost everyone says they think that taxes are going to go up in the future. Okay, we've spent a lot of money over the last two years because of COVID. And at some point, this tax bill is gonna come due. Right. So I think most of us feel that tax rates are gonna go up. But then the other question is, is about your income in retirement? Is it going to be higher, the same or lower? Let me tell you what we find to be true. Most of the time, we find that people's income in retirement is the same or higher. Okay? Because it's actually a myth that our taxes will be lower in retirement. I want you to think about this for a few minutes. I hear it a lot. Oh, I'm gonna have my income, I'm going to have less tax in retirement. Okay. Why are you going to have less tax? People think they're going to have less tax because they're going to have less income. But is that what you want? Here you are stepping off into retirement where you now have all of this time, right? Every day feels like Saturday, right? Every Monday through Friday now feels like the weekend, where you can go and spend money and do the things that you want. So do you want lower income in retirement? 


I've never had anyone tell me they want less income in retirement. We usually want more to be able to go fund those things that we want to do. So it's a myth that you're going to have less income in retirement for most people, okay? So kind of keep that in mind. And we can help you with some of that too, figuring out what your income is going to actually look like. Now today, we're going to talk about how to optimize your income in retirement so that you pay less in taxes, which means you get to keep more money in your pocket. And this is important. No matter what stage of life you're in, no matter if you're where you want to be. If you're not, if you don't know how to get started, or even if you think you have it all figured out. 


So in about the next 50 minutes or so, I'm going to go through the most important aspects of how to have tax diversification for retirement, and you're going to know which pieces are most relevant to you. Okay, now, I'm going to be honest with you, we don't have enough time today for me to get all the information in my head and all the information in John's head to you. So what we're going to do if it's okay with you at the end, we're going to set aside some time so I can talk about a strategy session. So we can try to condense down this experience that John and I have working with clients, we can customize it to you so that you can create the retirement that you want. So if it's okay, at the end of our talk, today, I'm going to show you how to do that. But don't stop listening. Okay, we got some really good stuff today to go through with you. And then we're going to save some time at the end for that. Great. So let's get into it. 


So here are the three things we're going to go over today. Different types of accounts and how they are taxed, how taxes can impact your income in retirement, okay. And then how can you achieve tax diversification. And I'm actually going to show you a case study. So it's kind of cool, I'm going to show you if you had money in different accounts, what it would look like so that you can keep more money in your pocket. Now, it's not just about keeping more money in your pocket, it's also about having more control. Because when your assets when your money is spread out across different types of accounts. Specifically, we're going to talk about some tax-free and tax-favored accounts. What happens is there's less government control. You have less rules from the IRS about when you can take it, and when you have to, and how much and how it's tax and penalties and all that. So that's when we want to make sure that you have too, not just more income in retirement, but that you have more control over your income in retirement. 


And of course, we've got some disclosures to go through with you. So here, I'll give you the Cliff Notes version. I am not a CPA, I'm not a tax attorney. Okay. So we do recommend as we're going through it, and I'm being very serious here, we are going to talk about some specific tax strategies. And you should consult your tax or legal advisor regarding your own financial situation, okay. Because this is not something, I always say you don't want to do this at home. Meaning you need to seek professional advice so that you don't have a big, you don't make a mistake and have a big tax bill. 


So let's talk about the different types of accounts. Okay. Now, we talked about three different types of accounts. And while we know that there's always going to be taxes, we, it's impossible for us to foresee changes in tax rates, and know with certainty how that's going to impact your retirement. But for this reason, that's why we're a big believer of having tax diversification. Because when you use a wide variety of investment accounts, you're able to pay less in income tax when you begin withdrawing money from those accounts, meaning more income for you and your family. So here are the three types of accounts we're going to go through. Tax-deferred, tax-favored, and taxable. Okay, and we're going to start with tax deferred. 


Now tax deferred is by far the most common approach to retirement planning, we see. It's not the most efficient, especially from a tax standpoint, but it is the most common. Let me give you some examples. This is a 401k, a 403b, a 457 deferred compensation account, a traditional IRA, right. These are all types of tax-deferred vehicles. And how these work is you contribute money today with pre tax dollars. So you haven't paid any tax on it. It grows tax-deferred, so you don't pay tax while it's growing. All that sounds pretty good, right? But the caveat is, is that when you go to take money out, it is taxable at your highest marginal bracket, okay? You have to pay taxes on every dollar that you withdraw. And there are certain IRS guidelines you have to follow. What are those? Means you can't take money out in most cases before 59 and a half without having a penalty from the IRS. And at the same time, you have to start taking money out by the time you're 72. 


Now today, as of today's webinar, today, the rules around required minimum distributions say that you have to start taking money from these accounts at 72. There are a couple of bills that are being passed around right now that may go into effect that may extend that to 73, and possibly even 75. So yes, these rules can change, these IRS guidelines can change, but we do have to make sure that we're following their rules. The other type of tax-deferred vehicles that we see are with after-tax dollars, we don't see these as much. But these examples would be non deductible, IRAs and non qualified annuities. So with these accounts, you put money in today that you've already paid tax on, it grows tax-deferred, so you don't pay any tax while it's growing. And then the gains are taxable when you go to make a withdrawal. So only the gains are taxable when you go to make a withdrawal from these accounts. 


Now let's talk about taxable, taxable. These are investment accounts. I'm gonna give you some examples. Money market funds, CDs, mutual funds, maybe you have a brokerage account with stocks or bonds, real estate rentals, right? These are all taxable, or I call them tax as you go. Because these are funded with after-tax dollars, pay the tax today and you put money into the account. But then as it's growing, you may have to pay tax. So and we actually were just having this conversation with a client yesterday. So how does that work? Well, if you've got investments, let's just pretend for a second you have a brokerage account, that's stocks and bonds. And as dividends come into the account or interest payments are made on those bonds, that is actually considered taxable income to you, even if you don't take the money out of the account. 


Because most people have those dividends and those interest payments reinvested back into their investment account, it actually helps your account grow over time. But the negative is that you have to pay tax on that. The other way that you're taxed from capital gain distributions. So if you do make any changes in the portfolio, or whoever's managing it, or the fund manager makes changes to, they're buying and selling, right, you can have realized capital gains. Which means you have to pay tax on those gains that were earned in that year, even if you didn't take money out of the account. Okay, we were just having that conversation yesterday with a client, and they have some money invested elsewhere. It's not with us. And they weren't aware, they didn't know. They knew they were getting these 1099s, but they didn't quite understand how they were having a big tax bill, even though they weren't taking money out of the account. 


So you can do some interesting things with this type of account when it comes to the income side. Okay, I don't have as much time to go into that today. But maybe that's another webinar, we would have some time in the future, talking about how you can use these from a tax efficient standpoint, when you get to retirement. Here's where we're going to spend the most of our time today. And that's going to be on tax-favored or tax-free accounts. So the way these work is you put money, you fund it with after-tax dollars, okay? So you pay the tax today you put money in, and it's going to grow tax-free, so you don't pay taxes while it's growing. And this is the best part, income and withdrawals are also tax-free. Okay. So basically you pay the tax today and you don't have to pay taxes ever again. 


Now, some examples of these accounts. Municipal bonds, Roth IRAs, 529 plans and cash value life insurance. Okay. And then there's you could also say HSAs health savings accounts if you are eligible to have one of those as well. Okay, we don't talk ask too much about municipal bonds, because the interest that you earn is pretty low. So we don't talk too much about those. And then also, if you live in Florida, we don't have any state income tax. So we don't look at municipal bonds as much here in Florida. And 529 plans are just for college savings. Okay, so it is they are tax-favored, but it's just for college savings. And I also mentioned the health savings accounts. But those are just for health care expenses. Okay. These are all examples of tax-favored accounts. We're going to spend most of our time today talking about Roth IRAs and cash value life insurance.


So let's talk about tax planning strategies and what you should be thinking about, because the accounts that you choose to use for your retirement income will be depend on where you think your taxes are going to be when you retire. So if you think that your taxes in retirement are going to be higher than they are today, then you want to focus more on these tax-favored accounts, like Roth IRAs, and cash value life insurance, okay. Because remember, you pay tax today, and then it grows tax-free, and you can take income out tax-free. So in this case, we prefer to pay tax today at a lower rate, and then have, enjoy tax-free income in retirement. So this is really for those who think, again, that their taxes are going to be higher in retirement. How does that work? How do you have higher taxes in retirement? 


Well, a couple different ways. Your income goes up over time, okay. Or you could, the tax rates could go up. And for most people, like I said, by the time you start considering if you have a pension, Social Security, you start taking money out of your retirement accounts for required minimum distributions, most people will have higher income in retirement. And those cases, we want to focus more on these tax-favored assets. But on the other hand, if you think your tax rate is going to be lower in retirement, then you should favor those tax-deferred accounts like the 401k, like the 403b. In this case, you're willing to take the chance that your taxes are going to be lower in retirement than they are today. And you're using these accounts to take advantage of that tax deduction that they offer. Okay. 


So like, just this week, I was talking with someone and she is putting a good bit of, she's contributing a lot to her 403b through work, she's maxing it out, she's putting in as much as she can. And we walked through and said, hey, does this actually make sense? Where's your tax rate going to be in the future, and she's actually going to have more income when she retires than she does today. So what that means is she's doing that reverse tax planning. She's deferring tax at a lower rate today, just to pay higher taxes later. Now, and that's just based on her income. It's not based on what happens with tax rates, right? Like this is just her current income. So if you take into consideration, higher taxes in the future, she's going to be paying even more. So we had to stop doing that. And we're gonna, we're gonna do some different things. We're going to focus more on those tax favorite assets while she's still working, to give her some balance, right. To give her some options and not have it all in their retirement accounts, the pre-tax retirement accounts. 


Now, there are lots of different ways that you can pay for retirement. That you can, lots of different ways that you can have, that you can take income from retirement, and most people think of that 401k plan, they think of that 403b, that 457, they think of their pension, Social Security. But there really are a lot of alternatives for retirement savings. Okay, you could use a CD. Now, it's kind of a little laughable, right? Because CDs aren't paying a whole lot these days, but you can use a CD. In fact, with interest rates being as low as they are, that's one of the challenges we have is the days of just putting your money in a CD, or putting your money all in the bonds and clipping those coupons, right? It has gone away. It's gone the way of the dinosaur. That doesn't exist in our world today. So that is one of the challenges we have when it comes to retirement planning. But you can use CDs, there are some mutual funds and municipal bonds we talked a little bit earlier. IRAs, Roth IRAs, right. There's different advantages with each alternative. 


But some strategies are often overlooked. And those are Roth IRAs and then the cash value life insurance. Okay, so we're going to look at, talk about both of those strategies today to see if it's something that would benefit you for your plan. But before we do that, I want to show you this case study. I want to talk about the impact that taxes have on your income. So we're going to look at an example here. This top example we're gonna say someone took $100,000 out of their retirement accounts. Now, we're assuming they're taking it from a 401k, right. And every dollar again, out of a 401k is completely taxable. So what we're looking at here is that this chart shows you if you took $100,000 out of the 401k. And if you are in the 32% tax bracket, then you've got to pay $32,000 in taxes. And that would leave you a net income of $68,000, for you to enjoy. That's $68,000 in your pocket to spend in retirement, right. To take that trip, to remodel the house, right. 


But let's look at some different options. Because as I mentioned earlier, tax diversification means that your money is mixed throughout multiple categories of accounts. And that strategy allows you to have flexibility and choices when it comes to determining how much you will be taxed in retirement. So instead of taking it all out of the 403b, or the 457, or the 401k. What if we took some from that tax deferred account like that 401k. And we took half from something else, like a Roth IRA, or cash value life insurance. Look what happens here. Now on $50,000, you don't pay any tax at all, okay, and you're only paying tax on what comes out of the 401k. So now, instead of $68,000, you have $84,000 per year to enjoy in retirement. Right. That's $16,000 more in your pocket for you to enjoy. That's a big difference. And it's all comes from having tax diversification. From having your money in different types of accounts. So important. 


So let's dig in. We're going to talk about Roth IRAs. I get a lot of questions about Roth. I think I have, I'm getting more questions this year, and last year too, last year and this year about Roth than at any time in my career. So what is a Roth? A Roth IRA is a investment vehicle where you contribute with after-tax dollars. And it does not, you know, pay any tax while it's growing. And then the income comes back to you tax free when it's structured properly. And we're going to talk about what that looks like. You can use a wide range of investment vehicles for your Roth. We have a whole buffet, if you will, we have a whole list of different types of accounts you can use for the Roth. And one thing is that we like about Roth is obviously the tax advantages. But there's also less, less requirements and less restrictions on these accounts about what you can and can't do. 


So let me give you an example. There's no required minimum distributions. What does that mean? That means the IRS, again, this is as of current law, but the IRS will not, will not tell you that you ever have to take money out of that account. You're never forced to take money out of the Roth IRA, okay, like you are with your pre-tax retirement accounts. And then also, if there is money leftover to go to beneficiaries, if there is money leftover that goes to your spouse, or it goes to the kids, it goes to them tax free. So it's a tax-free benefit, not only to you while you're taking income out of the account, but whatever's left goes tax-free to your beneficiaries. So how do we fund a Roth? There's a couple of different ways you can do that. You can contribute, basically, you can have a Roth IRA, and you can contribute money every single year. Now to do that, you do have to have earned income. And that's what I was telling the client yesterday, is that you have to be working, you have to have earned income to be able to contribute to a Roth. 


Now there are limits. There's a limit about how much you can put into them. And there's also income limits. So if you make over a certain amount, you're not allowed to contribute to a Roth. So we want to make sure that we follow all of those guidelines. The other thing that you can do is you can convert your pre-tax accounts to a Roth IRA. So we're going to talk about what does that look like. How to Roth IRA conversions work. When you're doing a Roth IRA conversion, you're actually taking a pre tax retirement account, okay. That could be an IRA, a 403b, a 457, a 401k, and you're actually turning it in to a Roth. So it's going to go from that pre-tax retirement vehicle to now be a Roth IRA. And whatever amount that you convert is going to be considered taxable income for the year that you convert it. So here we are in 2022, let's say you had $250,000 in your IRA, you convert all of that to a Roth, it's all considered taxable income for this year. It gets added on top of your other income, and you'll have to pay taxes based on your tax bracket. 


So here's a couple questions that you want to ask. How will you pay the tax? Okay. How will you pay the tax? Are you going to pay out of pocket? So I've got money in savings, and I'm gonna use that to pay the tax so that I have more money in my Roth to let it grow tax-free and have more tax-free income later, okay? Or are you going to have the account pay the tax, because you can do that as well. So if I have my $250,000 in my IRA, and I convert it to a Roth, I can tell them to withhold whatever amount for taxes, and then they'll take, they'll send that to the IRS, and whatever's left will now be in the Roth. There are some key questions that you want to ask yourself before, you know, should I convert my pre-tax to a Roth? Okay, so here's a couple questions you want to ask yourself. 


When will you need to take income from this account? So if you converted it today, in 2022, when are you actually going to need income from it? Do I need income from it right away? Can I let it continue to grow? What is that going to look like? Because you've got to do a cost analysis to figure out, is it worth it to do the Roth conversion? Is it worth it to pay all those taxes today, to let the account now grow tax-free? And a lot of that comes down to when are you going to take income from the account? And how much will you be taking out? The other question is how's it going to be invested? Sometimes I see people with Roth, I'll be honest, they do not have them invested properly. Especially to take advantage of all that tax-free growth, they do not have it invested in a way that makes sense for their overall plan. And we see that a lot. We see where decisions are made in a vacuum, and they decide in this one account how it's going to be invested without taking into consideration the whole picture, okay. Something you want to make sure that you look at. 


Let's talk about when is the best time to do a Roth conversion. Actually, now's actually a pretty good time. And one of the best times to convert to a Roth is when the market is down. Okay, or if you have a tax loss in one year, that's also a good time to do a conversion. But let's think about if the market is down. So, you know, I said earlier, I had, you know, $250,000 in my IRA, and let's say that now, you know, the market is down 10%. And if I convert at this lower amount now, right, my account value is down, I convert that, I'm converting a less amount, I'm paying less in taxes. Now it's in the tax-free account. So as the market comes back, it's going to get, it's going to have all of those market gains, it's all going to come back tax-free. Pretty neat. So when to convert, is when the market is down is actually a really good time to talk about doing a Roth conversion.


Roth IRAs also have what's called a five year rule, okay. And here's, I'll give you kind of the basics for this. This is, remember I said earlier about how it's tax-free as long as it's structured properly. What that means is they have this five year rule. So contributions, money that you're adding to your Roth are always tax-free. Converted funds are also tax free. But you've got to make sure that you're over 59 and a half and had the account for at least five years for you to take any earnings out that will be tax and penalty free. So again, it kind of goes back to that when do we want to start taking money out of the account? And how much are we going to be taking out as well? So we got to pay attention to this five year rule. 


We're gonna switch gears now and we're gonna talk about the other vehicle we mentioned earlier. So we've kind of been, we're going to wrap up here on Roth IRAs, and then we're gonna switch over and start talking about the cash value life insurance and how you can use that also for tax-free income in retirement. So life insurance is often overlooked when it comes to using it as a retirement savings vehicle. Most people think of life insurance, where it has this death benefit, right? Where it has this, it protects the family and protects the business in the event of someone dying. That's what we call the policy's death benefit, but that's how most people think of life insurance, right? There's this death benefit that comes into the family tax-free if I die. 


And that's true. Okay. So for me, I'm 38, I have two boys. They're five and eight. Actually, today's kind of a fun day, because today is take your son or daughter to work day. So my, my eight year old, Eli is actually here with me, and I had him helping me with a few things. So that's actually been a lot of fun. But yeah, so I'm 38, I'm married and the two small kids. So I do have a good bit of term insurance to protect my family, right. Because if something happens to me, tomorrow, I die tomorrow, I can't get up and go to work tomorrow, then my family suffers an economic loss. And especially with the two boys, you know, I have this responsibility to make sure that they're not gonna be financially destitute, because of something like that. So I do have term insurance for that. That's not what we're talking about here, okay. We're talking about permanent life insurance, that builds up cash value. 


So permanent life insurance has what we call living benefits. And policy owners are actually able to access that cash value, cash builds up in the policy, and they can use that cash for a bunch of different reasons. One of those is to supplement their retirement income. And that's why this is a very versatile tool, because it can kind of help you at different stages of your life. So let's talk about how this, these policies work. Life insurance is viewed as a benefit for society, okay. It's a social good. And that, because of that, it has significant tax benefits that does not apply to most other financial institutions. This includes, you've got this, I'm sure most of you are aware, when you have a life insurance policy, there's a death benefit. And that death benefit comes in tax-free to the family, okay. There's not many assets that are really going to come in tax-free. We've been talking about a few of them today. But that death benefit comes in tax-free. 


There's also cash value that's building in the policy, when you pay a premium, part of that goes into cash, you also have a dividend that can build up cash as well. And that grows tax deferred. And then you can take the money out as well on a tax-free basis. Again, as long as all of that is structured properly. So again, there's a few more benefits than just the tax side, we did talk about the death benefit how that gives protection, in case of someone dying, right. Provides protection for the family or for our business. The cash value can actually be seen as a asset to your portfolio. And another way to say that is it's considered a non correlated asset. What does that mean? It means that cash value is not correlated to the stock market. So when the S&P is down, 10%, and bonds are down 9% year to date, cash values of these life insurance policies are not down. They actually never have a bad day. 


Okay, as long as we're, they you know, they have dividends, there's contractual guarantees, there's a lot that goes into it, but they do not go down in value unless you're starting to take money out of them. I mentioned the dividend, some policies can have a dividend. And then some of the other benefits is that you can withdraw money at anytime without a penalty. So you don't have to wait till you're 59 and a half like you do with some retirement accounts. There's no required minimum distributions. So the IRS is never going to tell you hey, you have to start taking money out of this, right. There's creditor protection. Depends on what state you're in. But in the state of Florida, for example, you have 100% protection from losses and creditors with your cash value life insurance. And we can also add long-term care, so that you have some long-term care protection as well. 


So today, we've talked about how you can use these different types of investments, these different types of vehicles, so that you can have tax diversification, which means you can have more income in retirement because you're paying less in taxes. So no matter where you are, no matter if you think you can wait or not, you have to be proactive with your money. You have to be proactive with your decisions, so that you can know what your choices are, right. We find that a lot of people make decisions based on feelings. And we believe we should make decisions on facts. So what does that mean? It means, I want you to know, I want you to know, what are all my options? What are all the opportunities available to me. So I can decide by having all the information what is best for me, what is best for my family. 


So just imagine for a minute, let's just say you wanted to buy a house, and you want to buy this house three years from now in 2025. But over those next three years, you don't think about it. You don't look at your income, you don't see how to get a loan, you don't care about your credit. You don't try to research and figure out how much am I going to need for a down payment? Or what will those closing costs be? You don't look at any of it. And then if we fast forward it those three years to 2025, I've got news for you. You're not buying a house, right? Because you're not ready. But let's think about it, if you were proactive. 


So again, you want to buy this house three years from now. So what if over the next three years, you start meeting with realtors and mortgage brokers and you start gathering information? You start researching what city do you want to live in? What kind of house do you want? Do you want to live in a neighborhood? What kind of neighborhood? Do you want to live in a family friendly neighborhood? Do you want to live in one that's only 55 and up? Do you want to live in a townhouse? Or maybe you want to live in a condo downtown somewhere because you want the city life feel? Maybe you want to have some land, you don't want to live in the city at all. And you want to have more of a rural lifestyle and have land right? 


So you start thinking about where is it that you want to live? What sort of house do you want to be in? Start looking at what the price ranges for those houses. What are your options are going to be? How am I going to finance this. And you start really working through all that. And if you do that, if you take the time and you're proactive, right, it's going to make all the difference in the world to your planning. I've got news for you that person they're finding house three years from now, they're actually probably buying it beforehand. Because they'll have done the research they'll have, they'll know what their choices are, they'll know if there's any tweaks they need to make between now and then. And they'll know. They'll know what their options are. And it makes all the difference in the world. 


Now today, we have talked about some very specific strategies that you can implement. But here's the hard question. How do you know that they're right for you, for your situation, and which one is better? Right, we talked about Roth IRAs, we talked about different ways to have a Roth, we talked about cash value life insurance. Are one of these strategies a good fit for you? That's the question. And I'm gonna say this again, too. It's incredibly important that you don't do these without seeking professional advice, so that you don't make that big mistake and have that tax issue. So I'd recommend that we schedule a time for a strategy session, so that we can help you get clarity about your financial goals and concerns. We can get clear about what opportunities are available to you specifically, what are one of the one of the strategies, we talked about. Would one of those work for you. 


But what's holding you back? What's the roadblocks in your way from having, being able to enjoy life, being able to enjoy this retirement that you want? And what specific steps do you need to take to save time and money, and what if you can get there even faster? Like I mentioned with the person buying the house, what if you could buy it in two years instead of three. Think about all the difference that would make in your world. But I'm going to be honest for a second, I don't know if we're the right fit for you, because we're not the right fit for everyone. But what I can tell you is that if we schedule this strategy session, we will be able to determine if it's a good fit for you. Okay.


And how, you know I get this question sometimes if, how do I know if this is a good if I should have a call or not? Okay, so this strategy session is for you, if you're motivated, if you're committed to reaching your goals, you know, I want to figure all this out so I know my retirements gonna look like and I can have the life that I want in retirement. If you're coachable and you're willing to be open-minded and learn new ideas, and if you take action, okay. We love working with action takers to make sure like, hey, we're gonna do this work and help you with it. But we need your help, too, right? I can't do it all for you, I need you to do your part. And then this is not for you, if you're not coachable. If you're not willing to listen to other ideas, and if you're just expecting some unpaid consulting. 


So let's talk about the best ways to schedule a call. This would be a 30 minute call, okay, usually, we're wrapped up in 20, 25 minutes. And there's really a couple different ways that you can do that. You can call our office directly at 850-562-3000. Okay, that's our direct line here. 850-562-3000. You can also go to our website, which is www.johnhcurry.com. And there's going to be a button that says schedule a call. Actually, if you just go to johnhcurry.com/call. It'll take you right there. And you'll be able to pick out a spot on our calendars. I will send a follow up email as well. And that will include the link so that you can can book a call, too. And feel free to let me know if you had any questions. I know we went through a lot. So there may be some questions that come up. But I just wanna say thank you for taking the time to be on the call with us today. I hope you found it impactful and look forward to speaking with you all soon.


Voiceover: If you'd like to know more about John Curry services, you can request a complimentary information package by visiting Johnhcurry.com/book. Again, that is Johnhcurry.com/book. Or you can call our office at 850-562-3000. Again, that number is 850-562-3000 John Curry, chartered life underwriter chartered financial consultant accredited estate planner Masters in Science and financial services certified in long term care. April Schoen and John Curry are registered representatives and financial advisors of Park Avenue Securities LLC. Securities products and advisory services are offered through Park Avenue Securities, a registered broker dealer and investment advisor. This firm is an agency of the Guardian Life Insurance Company of America, Guardian, New York New York April show and as a financial representative of the Guardian Life Insurance Company of America guardian, New York, New York. Park Avenue securities is a wholly owned subsidiary of guardian, North Florida Financial Corporation is not an affiliate of or subsidiary of Park Avenue Securities. Park Avenue Securities is a member of FINRA and SIPC, this material is intended for general public use for providing this material we are not undertaking to provide investment advice or any specific individual or situation or to otherwise act in a fiduciary capacity. Please contact one of our financial professionals for guidance and information specific to your individual situation. All investments contain risk and may lose value. Past performance is not a guarantee of future results. Guardian, its subsidiaries, agents or employees do not provide legal tax or accounting advice. Please consult your attorney, accountant and or tax advisor for advice conThe Living Balance Sheet and the Living Balance Sheet Logo are registered service marks of the Guardian Life Insurance Company of America, New York, New York Copyright 2005 through 2022. This podcast is for informational purposes only. Guest speakers and their firms are not affiliated with or endorsed by Park Avenue Securities or Guardian and opinions are stated or their own.

2022-145010 Expires November 2024.

Exploring Social Security

Planning when you’ll take Social Security might be the most important decision you make for your retirement…

It impacts your income for the rest of your life (and your spouse’s income, too)…

The decision you make determines your destiny…

You need to make the decision that leads to your secure retirement—you’ll have the money to do the things you want and live worry-free.

In this episode, we’ll cover the basics of Social Security and help you understand this important decision.

Listen to learn:

  • What factors determine when you should take Social Security?

  • The pros and cons of delaying Social Security

  • How to find your full retirement age

  • What is the cost of living adjustment?

  • What spousal benefits will you receive?

  • Will Social Security change in the coming decades?

  • Is a strategy session right for you?

Mentioned in this episode:

Transcript

April Schoen: Hello, everyone, and welcome. So glad you're here. My name is April Schoen. And I'm sitting here today with John Curry.

John Curry: Hi, April. Hello, everyone.

April: And today we're gonna be talking about, we're really going to be focusing on one of the puzzle pieces of retirement. And that's going to be all about Social Security. And why is this so important? Well, when you take Social Security is going to be one of the most important decisions you make when it comes to retirement, if not the most important decision you'll make. And the reason that is is because this is going to impact your income for the rest of your life. And some people will live 20, 30, even 40 years into retirement. And not only is it going to impact your retirement, but if you're married, it could impact your spouse as well. 

Okay, so we're going to be talking about today is we're going to talk about, so you make sure that you know how Social Security works, so that you can know what all your options are available to you under Social Security, both for you and for your spouse, okay. 

And then that way you can make the best decision for you and your family. Now, the earliest you can take Social Security is 62. But there's a cost for that. There's a cost for taking Social Security early. So we're going to talk about that a little later on. And then your full retirement age for Social Security is somewhere between 66 and 67. And that all depends on the year that you were born. And then the longest that you can delay Social Security is age 70. Okay, so those three key ages, kind of keep those in mind, you may want to jot them down. 62, full retirement age, and 70, because we're going to be talking about those a lot today.

John: Absolutely. And they're very important.

April: So you know, John, I was just thinking the other day, I can't believe that it's been almost two years since COVID started. We really just have hit in March here this two year mark. And I was just thinking the other day, gosh, just thinking back about March of 2020. You know, you and I had just come back from a conference in Phoenix that we've been at for a week. And then it felt like we got back in the world had shut down. And I just remember what that felt like. I was remembering, you know, some of that uncertainty and some of that fear that we were feeling at that time. Some of the concerns we were having, you know, over our health, our loved ones, you know, also the state of the economy, the world, what is that future going to look like? 

But right before COVID started, I had no idea how good timing this was going to be. But right before COVID started, I had actually hired a coach. I hired a business coach for women. And I hired her funny enough, because I'm thinking about this, as we're doing a webinar, I hired her to help me with my public speaking. Because you know that time you and I were doing live seminars at our training room here in Tallahassee. And sometimes we have 90 to 100 people in the room. And so I was working with her to help me with my public speaking. But I got, I got so much more out of working with her. And I'm so grateful for that. Because as soon as COVID started, I knew I couldn't do it on my own. 

I knew that I needed to have someone that I could lean on someone I could bounce ideas off of because the world was changing, like in real time, very fast, very quick. And what's great about having my coach is that one, she had been doing this, she'd been a business coach for over 30 years. So her experience and her perspective in working with countless of other clients was really invaluable to me at the time, because she helped me come up with some great ideas that I may not have thought of at the time. And she was well worth the investment. Because I'm still benefiting today from the work we did two years ago. 

And the reason I bring all this up, the reason I think it's relevant to this conversation we're going to have about Social Security today is because I think we've all been there. We've all been in this place of uncertainty, where I'm thinking about those of you on the call today or if you're listening to this later, you may be thinking as you're getting ready for retirement, what's it going to look like for you and are you ready to retire? And how's it really going to look? And not to mention, okay, that's just retirement in general. I think people have some uncertainty, anxiety about retirement in normal time.

John: Absolutely. Forget about COVID. Retirement is a big step.

April: It's a big step. And not to mention just this uncertainty that we have in the world today. If you think about inflation is the highest we've seen in 40 years. Interest rates, we're now entering in this phase where interest rates are going to be rising. And then we've got all of this geopolitical risk that's going on with this war in Ukraine. So I think it's, it's really important. I'm glad that those of you on the call today, I'm glad you're here, because we're really going to talk about how can you use Social Security to help create your own secure retirement, okay. And I want to emphasize your retirement, because it's not my retirement, it's not John's retirement, your neighbor's, your co worker's retirement. It's your own secure retirement. 

And what makes it secure is not just that you have money, okay? It's great. But it's not just that you have money, it's that you have the money to do the things that you want in your life, and that you don't have to worry about it. Right. So before we get into all these details about Social Security, I let me bring John in. But I want to I want to tell you a little bit about John. So John is great. He's amazing. I've been working with John for eight years, and he has just a wealth of knowledge and experience. John's been helping clients for over 47 years. And he really focuses, has really spent a lot of his career focused in on around retirement planning. So helping people answer questions about Social Security, Medicare, IRAs, required minimum distributions, how do you kind of put it all together? 

But let me tell you what he, his strength is. We call it unique ability. And that is really to see a strategy for someone, because he knows how to do it, right. He knows how to do it well. He's seen hundreds, if not 1000s, of plans, so he knows what works and what doesn't. And he can also spot red flags. So if there's a weakness in someone's plan, John sees it. I mean, it is just clear as day I could see it sometimes in his eyes when he notices something's off. And that really comes from him being in business for 47 years and helping 1000s of clients at this point. And so I'm glad John's here today, he's going to share with you guys some information he has about Social Security. John's actually already collecting Social Security himself. So not only working with clients, but also firsthand knowledge. So glad you're here.

John: Thank you, April. I will say this, I'm 69 years old. So I started collecting Social Security at full retirement age. So when appropriate in the presentation, I will jump in and talk about the pros and cons of that. But let me tell you about April. April has been, we've been working together eight years, but she's been in business for 12 years. And as soon as she started working with me, I realized something about April, she was a detail person analytical, she loves her spreadsheets. She has a passion for investments. In fact, I call her a geek, the investment geek. Because she loves doing that, she has a passion for it. And she can sit down with people and build portfolios based on what their goals are. Just this morning, we're talking with a lady, we were talking as we went out. We've been working together since 1980, one way or another, that's 43 years. 

April: Amazing. 

John: And it's just amazing the relationships you develop over time. But I love it. But what April and I have done is we've put together a team of where we can get things done for people, usually faster than they can do it themselves. And definitely save them time and money. And one of the things I want to brag about April, while I've got her in front of me, you could hear. When I was out last year because of my amputation of my right leg above the knee, we didn't miss a beat as a business. Clients didn't suffer. April stepped right in, ran the business and everybody was taken care of. And for me, that was very important in my own retirement planning. What happens if I were to become totally disabled or I were to die? I wanted to make sure my clients were taking care of. And now they're no longer my clients, they're our clients. We work together. So I just wanted to share that.

April: Thanks, John. You know, you mentioned it as earlier today. We were talking about it. But I think what what makes our team so unique and really most efficient for helping people is that and you said it earlier today was that we kind of cover all aspects. We've got the age gap covered, right because you're 69, I'm 38. We've got the gender gap covered having a male perspective, a female perspective, not just from us, but the other people in our team as well. So I think that's really what allows our team to help get the best results for our clients.

John: I put it this way. We've got the young whippersnapper, we've got the old fart. Between the two of us, we'll get it done. 

April: Between the two of us. I love it.

John: I do want my comment on your comment about coaching. I've been hired my first coach back in 1986 I think it was. I have been in a coaching program pretty much ever since. And the power of coaching is this, it's not a cost. It's an investment. If you're working with the right coach. We're coaches. We coach people. And I love that. Many people will say to me, okay, coach, what should I do? And I like that, because the job is not to be in sales, it's to coach people and guide them to make decisions.

April: That's right. Yeah. And you know, it's good to have a coach too, I think that tells you like, it is right, like, it's not always fun to be coached.

John: I would never do that. I hold things back so much.

April: Oh, I bet. So let's kind of get into what we're going to be talking about today. So we're going to talk about your options for Social Security and how this impacts your overall retirement. So no matter what stage of life you're in, right now, no matter if you're where you want to be, or you're not sure where to start, or even if you think you've got it all figured out. I'm glad you're here, because we're going to really be talking about the most important aspects of social security. And you're going to know which parts of this are relevant to you, and how it's going to impact you. So and so again, we got about 50 minutes left, here. 

And so we're gonna really just dive in, roll up our sleeves and get to work. And if it's okay, because we're not going to really have enough time to get all the knowledge that I have all the knowledge that John has, out of our heads and to you. But we're gonna talk later about, we're gonna set a time at the end, to talk about how you could do a strategy session with us. So that we can really take this experience, we can kind of shorten it down and customize it so that you can create the retirement that you want.

John: Do this April, for just, take just a moment for those who might have to leave early. And let them know what happens on that strategy session call.

April: Yes. So at the strategy session call, what we're going to talk about is what opportunities are available to you what roadblocks are, might be in your way. And then we're gonna talk specifically about the strategies we're going to go through today and figure out which one of those may be appropriate for you.

John: And then what's the cost for that call?

April: It's complimentary. There's no cost for the strategy session. Yeah, absolutely. So we're gonna go through a lot of that today about how Social Security works, key components of your benefits and these different payments scenarios. But don't stop listening, okay. We got some really good information to go over. But we're gonna save some time at the end and talk about how to customize it for you. So these decisions around Social Security are so important, because the decisions that you make are going to determine your destiny, okay. Write that down. The decisions you make will determine your destiny. So let's get into this today and talk about how Social Security works. This way, you know how your benefit is calculated, and what your options are going to be. 

We had a couple people send in some questions prior to the webinar. So if we have time, we're gonna make sure we get to those. And I'm glad that they did. They sent in some questions asking about their benefits about spousal benefits. So we're gonna go through that a little bit later on as well. So I'm gonna say the same thing to you. If you have a question that comes up during the webinar, jot it down, and you can email us at the end, and we'll try to get get back to you on that. Okay. So let's go and talk about how Social Security works. So, you know, American workers have been really counting on Social Security since about 1935, that's when Social Security was first enacted. 

And as we know, it's designed to provide you an income in retirement, okay. And the Social Security's Trust Fund, how benefits are paid, how it's funded, is from the taxation of wages by the current workforce. So as I'm working, as John's working, people are still working, we are paying into Social Security, and those funds are being used to pay current beneficiaries. Okay, very important to note that. We're gonna circle back and talk about later about one of the issues around the program, but I'll kind of go ahead and give you the Cliff Notes version. This is a problem that Social Security faces, is that in today's age, there's not as many workers to beneficiaries as there were in previous generations. 

For example, and 1945, there was about 40 workers per one beneficiary, but Social Security estimates by 2035, there's only going to be two workers per one beneficiary. Okay. So it's very important. So when we get to talking about the issues around social security, this is one of them, is funding. It's making sure that Social Security is properly funded. Now, to qualify for Social Security and Medicare, you need to have 40 credits. So what is a credit? Essentially, you need to have 10 years of work history to be able for you and your spouse to qualify for Medicare. So as long as you have 10 years of work history, kind of gets a little more in depth about that there are some income restrictions in there too. 

But for most people, if you've worked ten years or longer, then both you and your spouse will call qualify for both Social Security and Medicare. Now, how is your benefit amount determined by Social Security? Well, what they do is they actually take an average of your highest 35 years of salary. Okay, regardless of when that salary was earned. And here's a key important thing to note is that if you don't have 35 years of work history, then Social Security uses zeros to fill in those gaps. Okay. So if you don't have 35 years, it's very important for us to look at that and decide when will be best for you to retire. Because you may benefit from working a few more years to make sure that you've got at least 35 years of work history. 

Social Security used to send out paper statements, but they don't anymore. So what you're going to want to do is go on to Social Security's website to get a copy of your statement. If you haven't gone to Social Security's website, we really encourage you to go on create a profile. It's been a couple years, but Social Security was having some issues with fraudulent activity, people trying to create profiles on behalf of other people. So if you don't have one, go ahead, go on and create a profile. And on there, you're going to see some different calculators that they have, that you can look at. And you can also get a copy of your statement. 

And this statement is going to show you what is your full retirement age, it's going to show, and what your benefit amount will be at full retirement age. It'll show you if you took it as early as 62. And if you delay to 70, as well. And the statement, your Social Security statement, this is one of the things that we would want to look at if we were going to do some comparisons for you. So if we were going to show you which one is better, which option is better for you, and even your spouse, so when to take Social Security, your statement is going give us the information that we can look at. And we can talk about who claims first, who delays. What's the crossover point. 

There's a lot of different things we can look at when you talk about what survivor benefits will be, either for your spouse or kids or what have you. So lots of different things that we can talk about from someone's Social Security statement. Let's go into a little bit more about the program and talk about when, how these benefits are calculated and when. So your full retirement age, this is the year that you get your you get your full retirement benefit, meaning there's no reduction in your benefit from claiming earlier. As I mentioned, you can start your benefit as early as age 62. But your benefit is going to be reduced and it will remain reduced for the entire time you collect it. Okay, so there's a cost for taking Social Security early. And you want to make sure that you know how that's going to impact your retirement. 

Now, you can also delay past your full retirement age, and we're going to talk about that in a few minutes. But let's just focus in on your full retirement age. What is it and when is it? Well, your full retirement age is determined on the year that you were born. And so if you're born between 1943 and 1954, your full retirement age is 66. If you were born in 1960, and later, your full retirement age is 67. And if you weren't somewhere in between there, so between 55 and 59, it's 66 and some months, okay. So you can look at this chart to figure out when your full retirement age is and then you can also look on your statement and that's going to tell you what your full retirement age is as well. 

So now let's take a look and let's talk about what happens if you delay taking Social Security or your options of taking it early. So we're gonna assume right now that we're looking at someone whose full retirement age is 66. So this means they were born between 1943 and 1954. And so the earliest they could take it would be age 62. But they would only receive 75% of their full retirement age benefit. Now, and so again, when we look at someone's plan and say, do you take it early? Do you take it at full retirement age do you take at age 70? This is very important. I mentioned earlier about this is the most important decision you're gonna make when it comes to your retirement. 

And this is why, because it's a huge difference between these benefits of taking it at 62, taking it at full retirement age, or taking it at age 70. Now Social Security has what's called delayed retirement credits. And what that means is you're deferring taking your Social Security benefit, you're deferring past age 66. And every year that you delay, you get an increase, it goes up by 8% every year that you delay. And so that's why you're seeing that if someone's full retirement age is 66 and they wait and take their benefit at 70, then their benefit has gone up 32%, okay.

John: Let me jump in for a moment on this, April. When I was looking at this for myself, I asked this question, can I take it at 62? In my case, I could not because I was still working. So I would lose some benefits because it was more than the guidelines, roughly $19,000. I could take the benefit at full retirement age 66, or wait until 70. And what you can see on the screen that's about $750 a month more income if you wait. But for me, and what you've got to determine for yourself, folks is do you take it at full retirement age or you delay. Let's talk about why you might delay to 70. Higher benefit, but if you do not have adequate life insurance, or savings or investments to take care of the spouse. 

In the intro, you mentioned survivor benefits. So that will be a reason to delay. But in my case, and for most people, I think this is true. I didn't want to wait, because the time value of money, I wanted that money now. But some people should wait. And that's where you get into planning. It's not just well, my friend told me I should take it at age 70. No, your friend has a different situation than you do. Let's analyze yours, and then put it in the mix of everything you have as far as income, savings, investments and retirement income streams.

April: Absolutely. And definitely you have to take a look at everything that's for sure. Let's look at this delayed retirement, if you, different full retirement ages. So again, like I said, If you delay taking Social Security past your full retirement age, it's going to go up by 8% every year. So this is also going to depend on when you were born and what's your full retirement age. So if you're age 66, and you delay to 70, well, your benefit is going to be 132%. If your full retirement age is 66 and six months, you don't have as long for it to grow. And so it's only going to be 128%. And if your full retirement age is 67 then it's going to be 124%. So it all kind of comes back to that full retirement age. And you know, when you're born, what's your full retirement age and how long are you going to have for it to delay. 

The personal amounts for for you, if you start your benefit at age 62, full retirement age, at age 70. They're all going to be on your statement from Social Security. Okay. And there's really, there's no perfect retirement age that covers all people. The decision to delay or not to delay, it's completely up to you. But I will say this, you do need to review your own life, you need to review your own personal circumstances to take a look and make this decision. Unfortunately, we find a lot of people make decisions based off feelings and not off facts, okay. So we want to make sure that you know all your options that you have all the information available to you so that you can make the best decision. 

So John, you were just talking about this a little bit. But let's talk about what are some considerations that people need to look at when they're thinking about taking their benefits early or delaying. So will you talk about, you know, what sort of income do you have? Are you going to have earned income? You know, you mentioned earlier if you claim it early at 62, but you're still you're still working in some capacity. Well, you can have reductions from Social Security, which we're going to talk about in a few minutes. Right. 

So you got to take in the full picture of what is your income look like? We got to look at your health, that that plays a role. Right? Should someone take it early? Should someone delay? You need to think about your health. What are your other income sources? Do you have a pension? Do you have other investments? Other retirement accounts? What's, you know can you delay taking your Social Security, will that benefit you or not? Right? So one of the things that we look at in our planning is we look at it both ways. What does it look like for someone to take Social Security early? And what does it look like for them to defer taking Social Security?

John: That's where our retirement rehearsal is so important, because people can actually test drive retirement before they get there. I think it's a well what if I did this, what if I did this?

April: Right. And I know for us, we actually kind of look at it behind the scenes. And we'll look at multiple, sometimes we look at three, four or five different ways for someone to retire, to say hey which one is going to be the best. We always say it's kind of like putting a puzzle together, we get to throw all the financial pieces on the desk, try to rearrange them, put them together in the most efficient, effective way possible. It's kind of fun actually.

John: Sticking to the puzzle, when you buy a puzzle, there's always a picture on the lid. So sometimes, once people start building this puzzle, they realize that's not what they want. That this is not the puzzle picture I thought it was going to be. So sometimes you have to just kind of move those pieces out of the way and start from scratch.

April: You know, I'm thinking about one client I met with earlier this year, and she was intent on retiring this year. I want to retire this year, I'm going to retire this year, like no ifs, ands or buts about it. And so we actually was like, okay, great. So let's look at what it's gonna look like for you. But one of the questions I asked her was like, which one though, is more important? Is it I must retire this year at all costs, no matter what its gonna look like, how it's going to impact me financially. I must retire. Or is it more of no, I'm okay, waiting a few years, if it means I can have the lifestyle that I want. Okay. 

And for her, it actually worked out, it turned out rather, she wants to retire. But she wants to retire on her terms, and still be of the things that she wants to do. So we looked at it that actually, especially Social Security came was a big puzzle piece for her, you know when to put that in the mix. And she's not delaying long, but she's gonna delay six months to a year. And you what she looked at it, she said, oh, I can do that. Oh, that's no big deal. I could do six months, I could do another a year, that's no problem. Oh, you're telling me if I wait one year, this it what it's gonna look like? I said, yes. And she's like, that's what I want.

John: That's an example of someone being so hell bent on doing something. And in her case, she was willing to look at other options. So many times, we'll get the blinders on, this is what I'm going to do, no matter what. Don't want to hear it. And it costs us money or it causes us a lot of stress.

April: Right. Absolutely. So I'll just kind of circle back on this a little bit, that there are a lot of key considerations that you need to think about when it comes to making your decision around Social Security. And make sure you, before you make a decision that you have all the facts. You know how these puzzle pieces fit together.

John: Speaking of the puzzle pieces, sometimes we'll have people say, when should I take Social Security? They want us to do that in a vacuum. We can't answer that question. We have to see the whole thing. We're not like Social Security, or even the division of retirement with the state of Florida where they say these are your options, and they do it in a vacuum. We have to look at a macro approach tied into everything like you have listed that you just talked about. Your health. Longevity, and taxes. A lot of things there.

April: Absolutely. All right, let's move on. We're gonna talk about some of these other key benefits for Social Security. Okay, and so one of them is a cost of living adjustment. So Social Security has a cost of living adjustment. But let me just tell you this, it's not guaranteed. It is based on the CPI, the CPIW actually. And the CPIW is the consumer price index for urban wage earners and clerical workers. So this is not always the inflation that we hear quoted in the media. And there are, so there's been years in the past where we haven't had an increase. Like 2010, 2011, 2016. And I see here on our slide, it needs to get updated for 2022 because we have the 2021 COLA for 1.3% which was last year. But for 2022 it was actually a very big number. 5.9.

John: Correct. 

April: Yeah, it was 5.9% was the was the cost of living adjustment for 2022. You can actually see back in 2009, it was 5.8. Okay, so we had a pretty high cost of living adjustment in 2009 as well, but the 5.9 for 2022 is the largest that we had seen like 39 years. So pretty big jump for this year.

John: And what else do we have that we've not seen for 39 or 40 years?

April: Medicare increases. Inflation.

John: That's right. A lot of issues going on. We have people tell us, well, I got a nice bump in Social Security, but my Medicare premiums went up. So I didn't really net much more, if any. In some cases people didn't net any more.

April: Absolutely. So the key thing here is that there is a cost of living adjustment in Social Security, but it's not guaranteed. So if you have, for example, like a pension through the state of Florida, you may have an automatic COLA that happens every July. Some pensions have automatic COLA, some don't. But for Social Security, it's based on the CPIW for that year. And they come out with it at the end of every year. And let's talk about taxes. Because there's, this gets very confusing about if your benefits taxed or not, how much is taxed. 

So let's kind of walk through this for a few minutes. Now, you may owe taxes on a portion of your Social Security benefit. But it depends on how you file your taxes. And it depends on what your other income sources are. So let's walk through this for both if you file as a single, file as a single return or if you file a joint return. But the first thing you need to look at is what is your combined income. So your combined income, you take your adjusted gross income, you add in non taxable interest and one half of your Social Security benefits. And this is going to equal your combined income. And then if your combined income is between $25,000 and $34,000, okay, then you are going to be taxed on only 50% of your benefit. And if your combined income is over $34,000, then 85% of your benefit is going to be considered taxable income. 

Now let's talk about what happens if you file a joint return. If your combined income, nothing about the joint return though, this is combined income on your joint return. So if your combined income is between $32,000 and $44,000, then 50% of your benefit is considered taxable income. And if your combined income is over $44,000, then 85% is considered taxable income. Very important. One thing that some people don't know too is that you can actually ask Social Security to withhold taxes. So we had a situation where the new client we're starting to work with and she was talking about taxes, and she was actually getting a penalty from the IRS, she had a penalty from the IRS because she wasn't having taxes withheld from her Social Security benefit and she didn't do any sort of quarterly tax payments along the way. So very important.

John: Very important. And just a little bit of trivia here folks. At one time you'd pay no income taxes on Social Security. That changed in the 1980s, under the Reagan administration, when all of these changes were made to Social Security. Because prior to that, full retirement age for everyone was 65. So a lot of changes are made. And I predict that in the next three to seven years, you're going to see even more changes made because of what's happening with the economy, what's happening with taxes. And if there's time at the end I've got some thoughts I want to throw in on that.

April: Absolutely. So let's talk about what happens if you're working and you take Social Security. So there's a lot of information we can go through here. So I'm going to kind of for the sake of time, I'm gonna keep this short. Just know this, if you take your Social Security benefits early before your full retirement age, and you're continuing to work, and you have wages over certain limits around $19,000, then you're gonna have a reduction from Social Security, okay. However, if you start taking benefits in the year that you take, the year you turn your full retirement age, the reduction isn't as much, but you could still see a reduction in that year. If you take it before you've actually attained your your full retirement age. 

But if you wait until the month that you're your full retirement age or later to take Social Security, there's no earnings limit. So let me give an example. My birthday is in December. So if my full retirement age was this year, if I wait to start taking Social Security in December of this year, it doesn't matter how much I earn, I can make a million dollars a year and there's no reduction from Social Security. If I take it earlier than the month that I turned full retirement age, we want to make sure, you just want to make sure that you know what those earnings limits are and how that's going to impact your benefits.

John: And we see a lot of people get surprised with that one. They're gonna retire the middle of the year like, in your example, and we say wait a minute. It's okay, but are you aware? And many times they don't know. Sometimes I'm impressed that they do know. Yes, it's gonna be reduced. But it's not that much so I'm going to do it anyway.

April: Right. Sometimes these other, these other factors in your overall situation come into play. And it makes more sense to do that.

John: And usually what we hear is I want the money now. I don't work anymore, I want the income, so I'm willing to take a little bit less now and enjoy it.

April: That's right. Alright, let's get into the fun part here, which is talking about some different payment scenarios. So the first thing we're going to talk about is some spousal benefits. So if you or your spouse have 40 credits, again, that's about 10 years of work history, then you both qualify for Social Security and for Medicare. So the way that the spousal benefits work is that you are eligible for benefits under your own record, or your spouse's record, okay. And you're under the spousal benefits, you're eligible for 50%, five zero, 50% of what your spouse's benefit is. So let's kind of talk through this a few minutes. And also talk about the deeming rules that Social Security has now. 

So first, Social Security has what's called deeming rules. And what that means is that they are deemed to pay you the highest benefit available to you. Okay, so that's the first thing you need to know, you don't have to do some crazy calculations here. Social Security's gonna pay you either under your own record or your spouse's record, whichever is higher. Okay. Well, let's just talk about the spousal benefits for a second. My husband's name is Brian. So I'm gonna use April and Brian as an example. So let's say my husband's, Brian's, Social Security benefit is $1,000 a month. And mine is only $250 a month. Just to keep the math simple. No, but let's keep the math simple. 

So in that case, that's for me, by the way, I need to keep the math simple. So in that case, his benefit is $1,000. Mine under my own record, would be $250. But because I qualify for a spousal benefit then I would actually get $500 from Social Security. So it's going to be half of what his would be, or mine, whichever is greater. Now, there are also some widow and widower's benefits available as well to surviving spouses. Okay, and a couple of things to consider here, if you are eligible for widow or widower's benefits. If you do remarry, if you remarry when you're 60 or older, you're still eligible for spousal benefits under your previous spouse. But the way the widow and widower's benefits work is you're eligible to receive 100% of the highest benefit. 

Okay, so let's talk again, I'm a numbers person, let's talk through the numbers. I'll use me and Brian as an example again. So Brian gets $1,000. Remember, I'm getting $500, from my spousal benefits, and let's say Brian passes away. For me, as a surviving spouse, I don't get both anymore, the lower of the two goes away. So essentially, I then will only be collecting $1,000 from Social Security. If you want to know the nuts and bolts of it, they'll continue to pay me my benefit, and they just add money on top of it to get to the same amount. That's really how it works. But the amounts all work out to be the same, you're gonna get the higher of the two.

John: And this is important, April, because so many people think they will get both checks. 

April: Correct. 

John: And that's just not the case. And they don't plan for, okay, 10, 15, 20 years down the road, one of those checks disappear. So that we have to take that into consideration every time we do a retirement rehearsal.

April: You know, I'm thinking of one, some clients of ours that took option four with the pension, for the State of Florida pension. So what that means for them is that was one, that they both took option four, so when one of them passes away, their pension incomes are going to be reduced down to two thirds for both. And they're going to lose one of their Social Securities 

John: Correct. 

April: And some people don't realize the impact of how that's gonna be.

John: And that got their attention because they had, they knew it. And it's so much alive. I know that, I know. But are you doing that? Are you acting on it? So they knew it at the conscious level, but they didn't do anything to solve the problem until they came to work with us.

April: Correct. And I don't think they really saw the number, so when we were showing them in the retirement rehearsal about how that's going to impact one of them. Doesn't matter which one, it's going to impact one of them. It was really the husband and like the color drained from his face because he had not thought, he knew it was going to happen, but he didn't realize how big of an impact that was going to be.

John: Well, when you say reduced by 1/3 that's different than saying, let me show you. If you're going from $1,500, down to $1,000. When you see it disappear, that's when it gets your attention.

April: One other thing I want to bring up about widow and widower's benefits is there are some planning strategies that you can utilize here. We have clients who will actually claim the survivor benefit from Social Security and then let their benefit continue to grow until age 70. So if you're in that situation where you have a widow or widower's benefit available, come sit with us, let's walk through all the options and make sure you know how to maximize your benefits. There are, again, just for the sake of time, we're not going to spend too much time here. But if this is something that's that's relevant to you get with us, and we'll walk through it. The main key here is that there's different survivor benefits for widows and widowers. 

Depending on if you're full retirement age or older, you can actually claim as early as 60, but there will be a reduction and then also for children as well. Here's another planning opportunity for you to consider is if you are divorced. So if you're divorced, and your marriage lasted for 10 years or longer, then you are eligible to have a spousal benefit as well, when you are age 62 and if you remain unmarried. So key points here for divorced spouses, the marriage needed to last 10 years or longer. 

Okay. And if that's the case, then you may have a spousal benefit available for you under your ex spouse's record, as long as you remain unmarried. Okay, but this works exactly the same as it does on the regular spousal benefits. So it's 50% of the higher wage earner. And this benefit that gets paid to the ex spouse, it does not affect the other one's record. It doesn't affect them. If, let's say, um, you know, Brian's the higher wage earner. And he's remarried, right? Again, Brian's, my husband, he's remarried, I claim a spousal benefit under his record, it doesn't impact his benefit, and it doesn't impact if he had a case where he married, it doesn't impact his current spouse's benefit, either.

John: And this was one of those areas where I believe you'll see a change in the future. Because the administration has said, there's a lot of money going out because of so many divorces after 10, 12 years of marriage, and that's one area of stopping some of the outflow. 

April: Correct. 

John: And it wouldn't surprise me if that benefit goes away. Meaning that if one person's collecting, then the second one can't. We'll see if Congress will do that. There's some discussion about it.

April: And it's my understanding that 10 year mark is in stone, meaning there is no wiggle room, there is no give. We had a client who I think they had been they've been married nine years and nine months, and they did not qualify for a spousal benefit under their divorced spouse's record.

John: Yes. And I remember one where it was very nasty, because the lady realized what had happened and he was intentional, she felt. And he could have waited. She should have said, I'm not signing the damn forms until I got to ten years. Had she had known it, she would not have signed.

April: Alright. Let's talk about some issues around the program. We talked about this one earlier. But really one of the main issues that Social Security has is it's running out of money. It's this issue of this ratio of workers to beneficiaries is going to shrink over time. And if you go to Social Security's website, they have all the information available for you there. You can take a look at information on the trust fund and how it's doing. But they estimate that by about the year 2034, 2035, that there again, there's only going to be about two workers for each beneficiary. 

And so that's when they think that the trust fund will be exhausted. And right now, they estimate they're only going to be able to pay 76 cents for each dollar of scheduled benefits. So what does that mean? That means if you're receiving $1,000 for Social Security today, and if no changes are made and the trust fund become, is exhausted, then your benefit goes from $1,000 a month to $706 a month. It's a big difference.

John: And if you really are a geek about this stuff like we are, you can get the trustee’s report and really dig deep and it's pretty heavy information. So most people won't do that. But if you want it, visit the website.

April: Absolutely. So this is where we think they will have some, make some changes to the program where we could see higher taxation, we could see them raising the full retirement age, we could see a lot of changes along the way for Social Security. Although they'll probably wait till the very last minute. Hopefully not. But I've been saying that for a couple years now. And here we are in 2022.

John: We'll get to the end. Instead of kicking the can down the road, let's kick it around.

April: And this is exactly one of the actual issues around the program is that Social Security becomes that political football, it's subject to political agenda. So every time we've got elections, what do you hear about, its plans for Social Security, and what's going to happen to it. So that's definitely an issue for Social Security. It's this political agenda. And then one of the other problems that it has is the CPI, I think there's a lot of changes that they could make there. I wish it wasn't tied to CPIW, it should really be tied to what's called the CPIE, that would be more relevant for those collecting Social Security. They could do a lot to change that as well. Now, there's one other issue, let's say with Social Security, but this isn't really with the program itself, it has more to do with your retirement, okay. 

And the issue here is that Social Security was never meant to be your sole source of income in your retirement. And if you look on your Social Security statement, they tell you in black and white, that it was not it is not meant to be your sole source of income, and that you have to have other assets. So this data I'm gonna walk through this is from the Social Security website, and this was based on people retiring in 2018. And what Social Security did is they looked at three different groups of people, and they based it on their pre retirement income levels. And then they said, okay, if someone pre retirement, well, I'm just going to use the middle one here, just for illustration for illustrative purposes. 

Let's say your income pre retirement was about $86,000. Okay, so Social Security estimates that Social Security benefits will replace only about 32% of your pre retirement income. Okay, that's about $28,000 per year, and the remaining 67 or $58,000. Okay, that's going to have to come from other sources. That's why this is so important. Again, not necessarily an issue with the program itself, but more has to do with your retirement. Okay, so let's talk about other sources of income. Pensions, retirement accounts, investments, savings, real estate, there are a lot of things for you to look at here. Okay. So that's why we talked about different options with Social Security and looking at the big picture,

John: Think back to 2008, 2009. People getting ready to retire the year before. And there were losses in the market, big time. My 401k was down 43%. Some were down more, some less, depending on what you're invested in. But I'm thinking as you're going through this, that timing is so important, but yet we can't time the market. You're talking about these retirement accounts, we can't sit there and say, okay, I know for a fact that when I retire it will be X amount of money. That artificial number we're told about all the time, it will take care of me. 

And if we can get to people in time, and help them do some planning, they can put themselves in a position. I'm thinking about our little lady we saw at 10 o'clock this morning. She has so many streams of income coming in, but she doesn't have any worries about income. It gives her the freedom to give away some of the money now to her three children and watch them enjoy it, compared to waiting until she dies. So it comes down to what do you want? And how do you build it to satisfy your needs and your desires?

April: Absolutely. Absolutely.

John: Well, why the hell are you retiring? The word retire means to you pull back, take away. So if you're going to retire, why not make sure it's the way you what you want it to be?

April: Absolutely. Let's recap. Everything we went through today, because we went through a bunch. So the first thing is that Social Security is funded by the taxation of wages. They take into, they look at your highest 35 years of salary to come up with your benefits. You've got to have at least 40 years of credits or 10 years of work history for you and your spouse to qualify. And take a look at your statement to see all your benefit amounts and ages. Your full retirement age depends on the year you are born. And when you start taking Social Security is going to affect your benefit. There is, could be a cost of living adjustment, though it's not guaranteed every year. 

And there may, you may have to pay taxes on your benefit. And then as well as working and claiming Social Security early may cause you to have a reduction in your benefit. There's different payment scenarios, we mostly focused in on spousal benefits, widow/widower benefits and divorce benefits. There's also some issues with the program, so far as funding issues for future benefits. Okay, and then part it's obviously subject to those political agendas we talked about earlier. And then not to mention, it's not meant to replace all of your income in retirement. Okay. So today, we really talked about a lot of different options and available to you when it comes to taking your Social Security and how, what does that really going to look like for you? 

But the question really comes down to is, which is right for you? Is it to take it at 62? Is it to take it at full retirement age, or is it to wait to age 70. And, as I said earlier, most people they make these decisions based on feelings. And you really want to make your decisions based on facts. Based on knowing all of your options. And evaluate which one is going to be the best for you. That way, you can make a decision based on what's important. And that's how we can guide you. So no matter where you are, no matter if you think you can wait or not. The truth is you have to be proactive with your money, you have to be proactive with your decisions, so that you can know your choices, okay, and know which is going to be the right decision for you. So let's think about this for a second. 

Let's say that you wanted to buy a house, and you want to buy a house three years from now. 2025. But in those three years, you don't think about it, you don't look at it, you don't look at your income, you don't look at houses and try to figure out anything, you don't look to see, you don't care about your credit card, excuse me, your credit score. You don't see how much you're gonna need for a downpayment or what closing costs can be. You don't look at anything. And then we wake up three years later, I got news for you, you're not buying a house tomorrow, right? But let's think about if you were proactive about it. 

What about in the next three years, you start meeting with realtors, and mortgage brokers and you start gathering information? And you start thinking about, hey, what neighborhood do I want to live in? Right? Do I want to live in the city? Do I want to live in the country? Do I want to be in a family friendly neighborhood? Do I want to be in a 55 and older community? What kind of neighborhood do you want to be in? What kind of house do you want? Do you want a big house where everybody can come stay for holidays and gather around? Do you want a condo? Do you want some land? Do you want to move out to be more rural and have some land? What kind of house do you want? 

So if you start thinking about what that's gonna look like, and then you start looking at price ranges for these houses, and you know what your options are, and how you're going to finance it. If you do that, if you're proactive about it, and start thinking about it now, it is going to make all the difference in the world to you. And that's why we would suggest too those on the call, you're hearing this later, to schedule a time for a strategy session. So we can help walk you through this. So let me tell you a little bit about the strategy session and how it's going to help you. First what we're going to do is we're gonna get clarity about what are your goals? What are your concerns? 

So this earlier, it's your retirement, it's not mine. We got to look and see what are, what are your wishes? What do you want to make sure is carried out? Okay. And then once we know what your goals and concerns are, we take a look and talk about what opportunities are available for you? We circle that back to when to take Social Security. Again, it's one of the most important decisions you're going to make about retirement. What's holding you back? Are there any roadblocks in the way? Anything that's going to prevent you from having the retirement that you want? And then what specific steps do you need to take to save you time, to save you money, and get you the results that you want? 

Okay, now, I don't know if we're right, a good fit for you because I'll be honest, we're not the right fit for everyone. But the way we can find that out is by having a strategy session. They're usually about 30 minutes long. And this way we can talk about goals and concerns and determined if this is a good fit for you, a good fit for us to work together. So this is for you if you're motivated, you know, you're committed to reaching your goals, you know, you want to have that lifestyle and retirement that you want. If you're coachable, you're willing to be open minded and learn. And if you take action. John and I love working with action takers, so fun.

John: Absolutely. They are fun to work with, because they say this is what I want, show me how to get it. And then let's go.

April: And get it done. It's fun to see it come to fruition, it really is. And to have all these, we could spend hours talking about all the different clients we've helped over the years and helping them get there. Not we want, but what they want. The retirement they want

John: It doesn't matter what we want. We can guide and coach but it comes down to what does the individual want? What does the couple want? If they are working as a married couple. It comes down to first finding someone, whether it's us or someone else, that will ask the right questions. And they have the courage to challenge you. Because I can tell you right now, we're not yes, people. We're not gonna say yes, whatever you want dear. Whatever you want. No, we're going to challenge your thinking. That's what you need. That's what you want.

April: Absolutely. So now I've talked just a few minutes ago about how you know if this strategy session is right for you. So I also want to talk a little bit about how if it's not right for you. Ant that's okay, too. I hope you learned a lot today. I hope you found it impactful. And I hope we continue to work together. But this is how this is not for you, scheduling a strategy session is not for you. If you're not coachable, you're not willing to listen to other ideas. And if you're just expecting a lot of unpaid consulting, right. So very important for us to kind of look at everything. But again, like I said, we're not the right fit for everybody. So let's talk about how to schedule a call. 

You can do it a couple ways. Okay, the easiest would probably just call our main office, which is 850-562-3000. You're going to get to speak with Crystal or with Zac, and just let them know you were on the webinar or you heard the webinar. And you wanted to schedule a strategy session. You can schedule that with me or with John. Okay, so again, the best way, the easiest, by the way to do is just call 850-562-3000. You can also send us an email, you should have our email from some of the webinar communication. I can get that out to everybody. And you can also go to our website, which is johnhcurry.com/call. That's johnhcurry.com/call. And what I'll do, John, I'm just gonna, I'll make sure I send an email out after the webinar. And that way everybody has the phone number and has the link too if that's easier for them. Just click on the link and schedule. 

John: Very good. 

April: Great. Well, thank you, everyone, for joining us on the webinar today. I'm glad you were here. Hope you found it impactful and we hope to talk to you real soon.

John: Have a good day, folks. It was a pleasure being with you. 

April: Bye bye.

Voiceover: If you'd like to know more about John Curry's services, you can request a complimentary information package by visiting johnhcurry.com/podcast. Again, that is johnhcurry.com/podcast. Or you can call his office at 850-562-3000. Again, that is 850-562-3000. John H Curry chartered life underwriter, chartered financial consultant, accredited estate planner. Master's in science and financial services. Certified in long term care. Registered representative and financial advisor of Park Avenue Securities LLC. Securities, products and services and advisory services are offered through Park Avenue Securities a registered broker dealer and investment advisor. Park Avenue Securities is a wholly owned subsidiary of Guardian. North Florida Financial Corporation is not an affiliate or subsidiary of Park Avenue Securities. Park Avenue Securities as a member of FINRA and SIPC. This material is intended for general public use. By providing this material we are not undertaking to provide investment advice for any specific individual or situation or to otherwise act in a fiduciary capacity. Please contact one of our financial professionals for guidance and information specific to your individual situation. All investments contain risk and may lose value. Past performance is not a guarantee of future results. Guardian, its subsidiaries, agents or employees do not provide legal, tax or accounting advice. Please consult with your attorney, accountant and or tax advisor for advice concerning your particular circumstances. Not affiliated with the Florida Retirement System. The Living Balance Sheet and the Living Balance Sheet logo are registered service marks of the Guardian Life Insurance Company of America. New York, New York. Copyright 2005-2020. This podcast is for informational purposes only. Guest speakers and their firms are not affiliated with or endorsed by Park Avenue Securities or Guardian and opinions stated are their own.

The Social Security Administration has not endorsed, approved or authorized this presentation. There is no charge to attend this event or subsequent consultations. Contact the Social Security Administration for complete details regarding eligibility for benefits. April is also a registered representative and financial advisor with Park Avenue Securities financial representative of guardian. 

2022-143951 expires October 2024.

The Secure Retirement Method for Members of the Florida Retirement System

When it comes to planning for retirement, the decisions you make today determine your destiny tomorrow.

And no matter what stage of life you’re at, making a plan now will ensure that you can retire with maximum freedom, security, and enjoyment.

If you wait any longer, your time and money are on the line.

In this webinar, we answer the most common questions about retirement and show you how to plan for a secure future.

Listen to learn:

  • How to get the most out of FRS benefits

  • When is the best time to retire

  • If going into DROP is right for you

  • When you should start taking Social Security

  • Why you should retire TO something—not FROM something

  • What you may not know about required minimum distributions

  • And more

Mentioned in this episode:

Transcript

April Schoen: Hello, everyone, and welcome. So glad you could join us today. My name is April Schoen. And I'm sitting here today with John Curry.

John Curry: Hey, April. Hello, everyone.

April: So today we're going to be talking about how you can build your own secure retirement. Now this talk is going to be primarily for members of the Florida Retirement System, because we're going to be talking about how to get the most out of your FRS benefits. But if you're not with the FRS, and you're listening to this today, or you're tuning in later, don't worry, we're going to cover a lot of great information too, that's going to be helpful for you. Because not only are we going to cover how to get the most out of your FRS benefits, but we're going to talk about some of the most common questions that we get from clients. So you know, John, I, the other day, I was just thinking about how crazy it is that we're two years from when COVID first started. 

John: Yep. 

April: You know, and actually it was probably this week like two,

John: Do you remember where we were two years ago, and all this started? Come March.

April: I do, we were in Phoenix. We were at a conference in Phoenix, and we get back from that conference. And then it felt like the whole world just turned upside down. Gosh, I was just thinking, how I remember how all that felt all the uncertainty and the fear that we had at that time. You know, we were all worried about one the, the COVID itself, we were worried about our health, we were worried about our loved ones, you know, I remember, my boys at the time were three and five, they were just babies, they had no idea what's going on in the world. And but I remember being worried about them, and also my parents, because my parents are getting a little older. 

So having some concerns there. And then also just thinking about the economy. You know, we were obviously the market was down. And we were starting to hear about layoffs, and just all that fear, fear and uncertainty that we were having at that time. What's interesting is that I had hired a coach right before COVID hit. So she's a business coach. And it's kind of funny, I was thinking about this too, is I actually hired her to help me with my public speaking. And I'd hired her right before COVID started, having no clue what was right around the corner. And she did. She was she was great with helping me with public speaking. 

Hopefully, you'll see that today. But one of things is that I got so much more out of working with her. And I'm so grateful I hired her. Because I knew when COVID started, I knew at that point, I couldn't do it on my own, that there was a lot of pivoting happening, a lot of changes were happening. We were going from having our live seminars to doing just webinars. Well we were already doing stuff online anyway. But now it was you didn't have a choice, you didn't have an option. So a lot of things were changing. And she was very helpful, helpful for me to be able to bounce some ideas off of her, someone to kind of lean on. And you know, she'd been a coach for 30 years. 

So her experience her perspective in working with all these other clients was invaluable to me during that time. And she was well worth the investment. I'm still benefiting from the work that we did two years ago, together. And the reason I kind of bring all this up is because for you, for those of you on the call, I think we've all been there. Right? We've all been at that place where we feel uncertain where we feel fear. And you may be feeling that today, as you're thinking about what is this next phase going to look like for me? What's retirement gonna look like? Am I ready to retire? Not to mention all the uncertainty we have going on in the world today. Just look at what's happening with Russia and Ukraine right now. 

Think about inflation being the highest it's been 40 years, and the Fed raising rates, what is all that going to look like? So if that's you, if you're feeling a little uncertain today, I'm glad you're on the call. You're in the right place. You're, glad that you're here because we're going to actually talk about how do you take some of that off the table? How do you create your own secure retirement? Okay, not my retirement, not John's retirement, not your co worker's, your neighbor's retirement, but your own retirement. And what makes it secure is not just that you have money. And while that's important, but it's that you have money for the things that you want.

John: Absolutely. Can I put some insight on that. From a 69 year old's viewpoint. 47 years of business. Some people are not going to understand what I'm about to say. But you know, what, it's nothing more than we've been through before. 

April: Absolutely. 

John: In 1974 the economy had gone to hell in a handbasket. Real estate market was crazy. 1974. You weren't born then. 

April: No.

John: So we have these cycles, we're going to have scary times, we're going to have fearful times, we're going to have ups and downs in the market, we're going to have inflation real high, like in '79, '80, and '81. So this is not my first rodeo, and you're talking about coaches. I've had coaches in my life, my entire 47 year career. It is very important that we are willing to invest in ourselves and hire the right coaches and get the right guidance. And it will save so much time, one of my coaches has taught me who, not how. I don't have to know how to do it, I just have to know who can either do it for me or do it with me?

April: Absolutely. That's great insight. And so as we kind of get into it today, I'm going to talk about creating your own retirement. What I want to do first is I'm going to have John speak in just a few minutes about how to how to do that. But I want to I want to tell you a little bit about John. So John's kind of alluded to a little bit is that, you know, he's 69, he'll be 70 this year, and he's been helping clients for over 47 years. Okay. And, John and I have been working together these last eight years. We work together in helping our clients. 

But I want to tell you, he is so good at seeing strategy for someone. At taking a look at someone's big picture, their overall plan, and being like, you know what, this is the strategy that's going to give the best outcome. He knows how to do it, right. He knows how to do it well. He knows what works and what doesn't work for clients. And he's great at spotting red flags. And what I mean by that is looking at someone's plan and saying, ooh, there's a weakness. There's an area here that we need to address for someone. Because if we don't address this, there's going to be a problem. And how he has that experience how he has that ability is because he's been doing this for 47 years.

John: There's some value to getting old.

April: You've helped 1000s of clients at this point in your career. You think about the books, you've written, your podcast, training other advisors around the country, you've helped, who knows multiples of probably 1000s of people at this point in your career. And I'm glad to have you on the call today to share some of that wisdom.

John: Well, thank you. It's great to be with you. But let's be fair here. In our eight years together, you have brought a heck of a lot to the table. That's why we're partners. What you bring to the table. And what April brings to the table folks is she is very analytical, but the thing that I tell everyone who will listen, you can't hire someone and teach them to care. They either care or they don't. And April has that big heart. She cares. So she puts in whatever time and effort it takes to take care of the clients. You can't teach that. People either have it or they don't. But you can see the picture up there, I want to make a comment that I love doing is you think about the brains and the beauty of the outfit. I'm the beauty and she's the brain. I don't think they're going to buy that, do you?

April: No, maybe not this time.

John: But on a series note, what happens is the reason we're such a good team, April, is because you have this analytical side about you as well as the caring, especially when it comes to the investments. You have a passion for it. You have the patience for it. I don't have the patience for it. I freely admit that. I can look at the big picture, zoom in like you said, wait a minute, you said this, here's what your behavior is given. Are you sure you mean that? And then you're able to take that like the gentleman we just got this morning. He's going through a heck of a lot of emotional roller coaster as well as the financial side so we're able to help him to where now he doesn't have that in his life. 

April: Absolutely. 

John: He's got enough issues.

April: And I think that's really what helps us get the best results for our clients because it's us working together in our own unique strengths, our unique abilities that we bring to the table.

John: I want to address something that I guarantee you some of you folks are asking. Okay, John is 69 years old, is he, has he retired, is he retired. On paper, I am retired. I will retire when clients no longer want me. As long as I'm relevant and bring value to the table and healthy, I'm working. Why? Because I love what we do. This is not work. It's fun to come to work each day and help people. 

April: Absolutely. 

John: I love being a coach. We're talking about having a coach. I've been coaching people. Well, sometimes I get paid for it. Sometimes I don't. But I've been paying, excuse me, I've been a paid coach either because of an advisor as you have or someone as a financial advisor saying hey, I need some coaching. But your comment about coaching, I'm glad you brought that up because it truly is more important that you find the who instead of wasting all your time energy and effort trying to do it yourself.

April: Absolutely. I agree. Alright, let's get into some of this today what we're going to be covering. So today we're gonna go over how you can create your own retirement. So no matter what stage of life you're at, whether you are where you want to be financially, or you're not sure where to start, or even if you think you've all got it, you got it all figured out. Okay, we're going to talk about how to create your own retirement.

John: Your own secure retirement. 

April: Secure retirement. That's right. So I've got a couple questions for you. And if we were in a live seminar, like John and I did pre COVID, in our training room in Tallahassee. We used to have 90 to 100 people there, it would be a little bit more fun, because we could get some interaction, but just kind of answer this to yourself a little bit here. How many of you would want more freedom in your life today? Okay, or how about security? Do you want more security? What's more important to you? Is it freedom? Is it having more security? Is it having more time with your family? Okay, or maybe it's all of those things. And I bet, I bet the majority of you would say, yeah, you know what, I want more of all of that. Okay, which is great, because that's what we're going to talk about. All the ways that you can do that. Okay, here, we've got about 45 minutes left, okay. I sure do talk a lot. 

So we're gonna get down to it here. And we're going to go through the most important aspects of creating your own secure retirement, and you're going to know which pieces are most relevant to you. But here, here's the one thing. There's no way we have enough time today, to get all the knowledge from my head and from John's head to you. I wish we could, I wish we could just boom, zap it, you have all this information. So if it's okay with you, what we're going to do is we're going to set some time at the end. And we're going to talk about how we can do a strategy session. That way we can condense this 50 plus years of experience down to customize it to you, so that you can create the retirement that you want. So if it's okay, that's what we're gonna do. 

We're going to save some time at the end and show you how to do that. Okay, but don't stop listening. Don't wait to the end, we got some really good stuff. Okay. But we'll save some time at the end to talk about it. So let's get into it. Here are the three things we're going to go over. We're going to talk about when is the best time for you to retire? How are you going to know when that is? Okay, we're going to talk about how do you get the most out of your FRS and Social Security benefits. Okay, and then we're also going to talk about some pitfalls. And I'm gonna give you the Cliff Notes version on the pitfalls. When we talk about pitfalls, we're gonna be talking about taxes. We're gonna talk about Medicare, we're gonna talk about required minimum distributions. All the fun things, okay. So there's some pitfalls, some things you need to be aware of, to make sure that you don't leave money on the table.

John: And also now inflation. 

April: And inflation.

John: Because most people got lazy about inflation. Ignored it. It's not a big deal. But it is a big deal, especially in retirement.

April: That's right. So and here's why this is so important, because the decisions you make will determine your destiny. Write that down. The decisions you make will determine your destiny. So first up on the agenda is we're going to talk about the pension options that if you're a member of the Florida Retirement System you have available to you. Okay, if you don't know, there's four options that are available to you under the pension. Okay, now, when you work for the State of Florida, you have different options, you can be in the pension plan, and you can also be in the investment plan. So we're not going to go into too much on the investment plan right now. We're going to focus in on the pension plan and what your options are. John, would like to go through the four pension options that are available?

John: Absolutely. And this gives me an opportunity to talk about why I have such a passion for this. So I'm gonna cover a little background real quick. My grandfather and my father both retired from the State of Florida. Specifically DOT, the Department of Transportation out of Defuniak Springs. What led me to having a passion for this is each man got bad advice. My grandfather chose option one. And when he died, my grandmother lost that income. So option one is life only. So I get the check. As long as I live I get it. The day I die, doesn't matter when I die, it's gone. Option two is a version of that. Life to me, then retire, and a 10 year guarantee. So if I only have five years, then my beneficiary gets it for five more years. But I live 10 years or longer and I die. It's all gone. My dad took option three. Option three is joint with 100% to the survivor. 

So what my dad collected when he died August of 2015 my mother got that until she died in 2019. So both men took the option they thought was best based on their set of facts and knowledge. But there's another option, option four. It's a variation of option three, in the sense that you get the check every month for as long as you live. But upon your death, the benefits reduced to two thirds to the spouse. Now, here's the kicker. If the spouse dies first who has never worked in the State of Florida Retirement System, then the retiree's benefit is also reduced to two thirds. Many times in our careers, we've seen people say, oops, I took the wrong option. So the first step is making sure that you thoroughly understand each of those four options. 

Number one, life only. The day you die it's gone. Number two, life with a 10 year guarantee. Number three, 100% to the survivor. And then number four, lifetime income to you. But upon either death, the survivor gets reduced to two thirds. People need to pay attention to those. And the question of which option should you choose depends upon how much life insurance you have in place. How much savings, investments, your health at the time, a lot of options there. In my grandfather's case, he took the maximum, thinking he was going to live a long time. He didn't. He lived about five years in retirement. My dad took option three, and he paid a price for that. It was about 22% less than what he could have had. But he had the peace of mind mom was taken care of.

April: Absolutely, there's, like I said, if you think about only four options, but it really gets complex, because you can't think about how just how much is it going to be this one year, right when I would retire. This is going to impact your, for the rest, it's gonna impact your income for the rest of your life.

John: Well, it's not just you. It's you and your spouse, it also impacts other people in your world.

April: Absolutely. So I was thinking about some clients of ours that we met, when we met them, they had already chosen their pension options. I want to say they were already in DROP, if you know what that is, which we're going to cover later. So when you go into DROP, you actually have to go ahead and pre select your pension option. So we met them, they had already selected their pension. And they both, they both work for the state, they both chose option four. Okay. And what they didn't realize is that when one of them passed away, the surviving spouse's income was going to be cut down to two thirds, plus, they're going to lose one of the social securities. So it was much more of a loss than they thought that it was going to be.

John: Because they didn't think it through from that standpoint, and they even said so. So if one dies, both of the benefits are dropped. 

April: Correct. 

John: They still get it, but it drops. And then they lose the lower social security. 

April: Absolutely.

John: So all this stuff is important that you don't do it in a vacuum, you don't just say well, I'm just gonna choose option 1, 2, 3 or 4. No, no, no. What else do you have going on in the background? Or the foreground that might make you think differently about an option?

April: And for those clients, we weren't able to help them, we were able to help them bridge the gap. Now, I'm going to tell you, we couldn't get it perfect. Right. Had we met them, had they come in years before, we probably could have done something else. But we did the best we could. And I told him we're not gonna be able to get this to be perfect, but we're gonna get it as close as we can.

John: I don't think we can ever get it perfect. But we can get it to the ideal if we have the timing and some people come to us six months before they retire, sometimes two months. Here, we need your help. Bingo. And it's like, wow. It's scramble time.

April: That's right, and then we can only work with what we got. Right? So let's talk about another option, another benefit that you have with your pension, which is DROP. So if you are in the pension plan with the State of Florida, you're going to have some options about do you go into DROP. Now there are specifications of you've got to have a certain amount of years of service or be a certain age to be able to be even eligible to go into DROP. So that's one thing to consider. But deciding if you go into DROP or not can make all the difference in your plan. Okay. But I'm not here saying that DROP is the end all be all and everyone must do it. It's not for everyone. You can't make this decision blindly. Or you could leave money on the table. So it's not a rule of thumb. You can't just say everyone should always go into DROP because that's not the case.

John: But that's what people have been told by well meaning friends and some advisors who don't fully look at the big picture.

April: Absolutely. And so really, you have to look at it both ways. What will your retirement look like if you go into DROP? And what does it look like if you don't go into DROP?

John: Obviously because of time we can't get into the have detailed issues regarding DROP, you know, how you qualify and all that. But that's something you can either look up on your own or have a strategy session with us, or come in, we can help you then. But we're making the assumption that some people should go into DROP when they're ready to qualify. Others make the decision not to. I love the conversations around that April because ever since DROP was started I've had the conversation about do you really want to retire? And how many people we work with, they went into DROP, then they were forced out, and they regretted it. Even though you can stay out for a year go back, but they still regret it. I love my job. I wish I had not done that.

April: Yeah, I'm thinking about two clients, one who, when we looked at the numbers, I'll be honest, I told her at first is that I think we're gonna find that you should go into DROP. And I told her that and I said, well, why don't you let's get the numbers. And let's look at it and make sure. What do we always say trust but verify, right? But so in this case, it was okay. Here's what we think. But let's not just think about it. Let's actually go in and verify the numbers and see if it makes sense if the numbers match up. And I'll tell you it was close. But it actually made sense for her not to go into DROP and just work those extra five years so that her pension was higher when she retired.

John: For good. Yep. And that's part of the key higher pension. Also, do you love the work you're doing? If you can't stand the people you're working with, can't stand what you're doing, well, maybe you should get into DROP, just to get out. And have some bucket of money.

April: And we can actually kind of plug those into our planning software and look at side by side, which option will be best for someone. And again, not just today, but what's it going to look like the next 20, 30 years. Okay, one of our favorite topics, taxes. So taxes are different for everyone, right? It's your tax situation is going to be different based on all the different income sources that you may have. You could have a pension, Social Security income from retirement accounts, income from non retirement accounts. And so that's all going to factor into your different you how your taxes are treated.

John: Taxes are a form. Okay, a form of confiscation of our assets. Taxes, we need to pay, because we live in a great country and we have to finance it. But when I say confiscation, it's up to us as individual tax payers to focus on minimizing the tax. When I was getting my master's degree in financial services we had one entire course, on tax history of taxation. It was a really eye opening. And the burden is on us to find ways to minimize tax. I'm not talking about avoiding tax, okay, I'm talking about avoiding not evading. If you do tax evasion, you're going to prison.

April: But we don't want that.

John: I don't want to to be housed by the government. But it's very important that you take control of that and plan ahead.

April: So what we look at, I'm gonna get into a little bit of the nuts and bolts on this. But one thing I want to tell you too, while I'm thinking about this taxation thing is we actually are going to have a webinar in April, that's all going to be about tax diversification. So that webinar is going to be if you want to go ahead and jot this down, it's going to be on April 28th. That's a Thursday, we'll do it at noon again. But that's when we're going to do a webinar on tax diversification in retirement. And we really spend the whole time just talking about taxes. 

So I'd encourage you to join us for that webinar. But here's what we're going to be cover in that webinar is we talk about three different types of accounts and how they're tax. We talk about tax deferred. We talk about taxable and then tax free. Okay. So tax deferred would be I contribute money today. Think about a 401k or 403b or 457. Usually we think of these as pre tax. So it's money I put in today that I haven't paid tax on. It grows tax free, but every dollar I take out of it in the future comes back taxable at my highest marginal rate. Okay, so that's tax deferred. 

Then you have taxable accounts, okay. This is like a brokerage account investment and non qualified if you're familiar with that term, non retirement account. This is an investment account where you pay tax today. You invest it in stocks and bonds and then your taxed as you go. You could be taxed on interest payments, dividends, and then realized capital gains. So it's taxed differently than your retirement counts. And there's actually some interesting things you can do with that bucket when you get to retirement and you start taking income out of it. Okay. And that's something we're definitely gonna hit on on the webinar in April.

John: And your DROP and deferred comp would come into that category of tax deferred. 

April: Yes. 

John: And what people forget about is adding that income stream when they take the income to determine their taxes. How many times we've seen people oh, I forgot all about that, right. But the reason they forget about it is because it's in the growth mode. Accumulation phase is great. But the day will come when the government will force you to do distributions called required minimum distribution. All that money has to be accounted for. So now that pushes them into another tax bracket.

April: Absolutely. And so that's one of the things we want to look at. Right? Is the impact. What's the impact the taxes you're going to have over over our lifetimes? And so those three types of accounts we look at are tax, deferred, taxable, and then tax free. So tax free would be like a Roth IRA or Roth retirement account. Also, cash value life insurance fall into that category, as well as being tax free, which we can talk more about later. While I'm thinking about it because I just mentioned Roth, I'll tell you, I think we're having more conversations about Roth conversions today than I've probably had in my career. And we've been talking about this a lot recently. And it's clients asking, hey, should I do a Roth conversion? Should I do a Roth conversion? What do you think this looks like? And, you know, it's because a lot of people, us, we feel that tax rates are gonna go up in the future. And so then it's the idea of what is better? Is it better to just defer the tax until I have to take it out? Or is it better to pay some tax today, when it's a known number, to have more tax free income later?

John: Well, one of the things we've looked at in planning is we can show people tax history. That's not our numbers, that's coming from the Internal Revenue Service, going back to 1913. And you take a look at tax rates, even though the top bracket now 37%, that's still considered a low tax bracket compared to 50, and 70%. And many of us, and I'm definitely one of them, I believe in my lifetime, I'll see tax rates back at 50%. I think there'll be higher. But if you take into account all the taxes you have to pay in retirement, you're pretty close to 40 to 50% anyway. Because the time you look at your Social Security, that you pay tax homes, you take a look at the Medicare premiums, especially if you have higher income for Part B. So you start adding it all up. Most people are going to be in a higher bracket than they think if they add that up. But what's interesting, they're affected income tax bracket, usually we see that they're lower than they think. But we add everything else together, it's higher. Which is pretty amazing actually. How do I go into retirement, and have to pay this much tax.

April: You know, and you mentioned earlier, you said that who not how right. Who can help me with this. And I would say this, this category here on taxes, you may want to put a star by it, is definitely one that you don't want to do on your own, it's one you don't want to do in a vacuum, because you don't want to make any mistakes when it comes to the taxes. So it's very important to have someone that can help you look at all of this, especially because I just mentioned a Roth conversion. So especially if you start thinking about that you want to have someone to take a look at it. Alright, so let's talk about when is the best time for you to retire. Okay. And here's the thing, retiring at 62, or working and retiring to 70. 

I mean, that's a different life. Right? And here's a question, how long will you live? Right? All these questions. So we're gonna, we're gonna kind of walk through this a little bit. But here's what we find too. A lot of people make this decision about when to retire based on feelings, okay? And what you really want to do though, is make sure you make your decisions based on facts. Based on knowing all your options, so you can evaluate which one will be best for you. And you can make that decision based on what's important to you. And that's how we help guide you to so that you can have all the information, have the knowledge, have the facts, so you're not just basing it on feeling but on on having concrete information.

John: Totally agree. Because if I have all the pieces of the puzzle on the table, I've got the lid, it shows me what it looks like on the jigsaw puzzle. I put it together. Now, I can look at it see the whole picture. And that's what I love doing, is how do we look at the whole picture? You got pieces scattered everywhere. Let's put it together and now know what we got.

April: Absolutely. John, will you take a few minutes and talk about these four freedoms, especially when people are thinking about when should I retire?

John: I would love to, because you know, everything I do, I filter through these filters. The first is time. But I want to hit the bottom one first. Freedom of time for the wrong reasons, because I think it will amplify what I'm gonna say. And you might touch on that also, I don't know what your thoughts are. But I see people and you see people who are retiring for the wrong reasons. They're retiring from something. You hear things like I hate my job, I can't stand this anymore. So they're retiring from something, not to something. The people that seem to be the happiest in retirement are retiring to something. They have something they're looking forward to, they're excited, maybe they're moving to another location. Maybe they're starting a business. Maybe they're spending time with their grandchildren, or in my case, even great grandchildren. 

And that leads right into the freedoms, if you have time freedom, but no money to enjoy the time, what good is that? If you have time and money, but your relationships are bad, what good is that? Okay, and then location is where do you want to be. Do you want to stay in the home you're in, do you want to build another home, do you want to move to another city? But these things are important. And it's interesting that in our conversations with people, what people tell us over and over that separates us from other people, is we're not just talking about their money. We're talking about these other things. Okay, so you retire, and you got an income. Great. What are you gonna do with the income? How will you spend your time? Who will you spend your time with? Relationship. Where will you be when you spend money? 

I think it's powerful. It's powerful. And for me, everything I look at, the first question is what's the relationship like? How much time even energy and money is this going to require? And if the relationship is good, then I'll consider more time, energy and money. If it's not a good relationship, why would I give you any of my time, energy or money? And we have to create value. You awnd I have to do that every time we see a client, or a new person who might be a client. If we can't bring the value to the table, then we don't deserve their business.

April: Absolutely. You know, when you were going through those freedoms, I was, it reminded me of some clients we helped a couple years ago, and they were getting ready to retire or say he was getting ready to retire. But they have a, is a married couple. But there's 20 years difference in ages. Okay, so he was almost 70 when he was going to retire. And I remember when we first met with them, back to that fear and uncertainty I was talking about in the beginning. There was a lot of that, because it was like, okay, well, he's getting ready to retire. But I'm only 50. How much time will we have together? Or by the time I retire, how old is he gonna be and now we can't go do all these things. And there was a lot of fear there. And I remember we just were able to kind of help them create a plan where they both could retire at the same time, and enjoy this time together.

John: And isn't it fun to be able to help someone do something they thought was impossible. I cannot tell you how many times in 47 years, I've had that feeling. And I go wow, I made a difference. And now I say we're making a difference as a team in people's lives. You can't put a price tag on that.

April: No, and even for them, it's so fun to watch now, because they retired, they both retired. And they bought an RV. And they've been traveling all over the country and getting to do all these fun things. And it's been great to kind of keep up with them. And they're really just living life to their fullest. And it's been really fun to see. And the truth is you know, she may go back into the workforce one day. It's not going to be because she has to it's going to be because she wants to. And that's also very powerful too. And then I was thinking about another client, John you remember this story is that one of our, this has been a longtime client of John's, and I was I called him one day because we wanted to set up a time for a review. 

Because we like to see our clients at least once a year, if not twice. And I remember calling him to say, hey, you know, to talk to him about coming in for a review. He's 90 years old. And he said, and he says April, I have got to give up some of my social commitments. I have no time on my calendar. And I remember just thinking how great it is that here's someone age 90 still living life on his terms, enjoying life and doing all these things that he wants to do socially and in the community. It's very powerful.

John: And he's creating value in those events he's going to and doing, because he's very active.

April: That's right. That's important. I love, I love, I love his perspective.

John: I wish we had time where I can share some of the things that he and I have done together. Wow. We've been working together, it's got to be 40 years.

April: I was wondering. 

John: That's got to be for 40 plus years. 

April: Okay, now this is one of the topics we get asked questions all the time, and it's when should I start taking Social Security?

John: Hell, I get these questions when I see somebody at Publix. I was at Publix right across the way, John, can I ask you a question about Social Security? Yes, go ahead.

April: So you may already know this, but the earliest you can take Social Security is age 62. The earliest you can take Social Security. But if you take it early, you're going to have a reduction in your benefit. You also have what's called your full retirement age. And that's going to be somewhere between age 66 and 67, for most of you on the call. And then you can delay taking your benefit to age 70. That's the latest to claim Social Security. And you do get extra benefits for delaying taking Social Security. Now, we are going to have a webinar on Social Security in March. Okay. And so we're gonna talk a little bit about here, kind of the high points, but in March, it's going to be Thursday, March 24th, if you want to jot that down, it's going to be at noon again. And we're going to go all into Social Security.

John: You know, I'm getting tired of you making me work so much.

April: It's fun though, right? 

John: It is fun. I love it.

April: Absolutely. So John, can you take a few minutes here and just talk about when should someone start taking Social Security? There's obviously I know, a lot that goes into it. So what are some of those considerations they should be thinking about before they start Social Security?

John: Well, let me tal about my own situation. April and I talked about mine, we do I take it. Do I take it at full retirement age, which for me was 66. Do I wait until 70. And I made the decision to take mine at full retirement age. Why? Because I'm healthy. And I believe that if you take a look at the going to move into life expectancy, there's not that much difference. Yes, there's more, if I delay it, but you also have to take into account that I have that money the four years along the way. But for me, it comes down to the biggest consideration is, this may surprise people. What do you have in place as far as benefits to a spouse. 

If you have plenty of life insurance and other investments, and income to the spouse is not that big of a deal, then take it early. If you don't, then you may need to delay it so that upon your passing, there is a higher Survivor Benefit for that widow or widower. So I think you'd have to take into account your health, your family history. And frankly, if you want the money now. My case as you know, every time I get my Social Security check, it gets invested, right. And the way I look at it, I'm taking money that is coming in, and I don't need and I'm investing in very aggressively. I don't do that with my other money. 

But this is extremely aggressive. But it depends. Do you want the money today, do you want to use the money, use it to benefit your children, your grandchildren, your great grandchildren, which I did some of that as you know the first couple of years. But now I save it. And I think it's a very highly individual and personal decision. But I will tell you, people get in trouble again, and they do it in a vacuum. Everybody says I should take it at 62 because Social Security is going to hell in a handbasket. Don't listen to that nonsense. I'm gonna wait to 70 because I'll be better off. Well, maybe not. If you're in poor health, why wouldn't enjoy the money today? So there's a lot of moving parts to that.

April: Absolutely. I think what I was thinking of is, I know definitely some clients that we've helped that qualify for a widow or widower's benefit. There's a lot of misunderstanding out there about what's available and what's not available and what you can do. So we've helped clients where they were leaving 1000s of dollars on the table by just a simple tweak, tweak in their strategy for when to take Social Security. 

John: Yes.

April: Very impactful. And then I was thinking about another couple that retired a couple years ago, where she was full retirement age. So she went ahead and started taking Social Security, but he was 62. And I remember him saying, oh, well, I'm gonna go ahead and take Social Security, I'm gonna have this big reduction. And he thought, he was kind of disappointed, he thought he was gonna have this big reduction in Social Security for the rest of his life. And we said, well wait, let's see if that makes sense. Right? And we were actually able to show him how he could get the most out of his Social Security, because he was in a position to do so. Right. And in that way, it was also going to help his wife upon his passing because he's the higher wage earner.

John: Well, if you take a look at the visual you have on the screen you see the puzzle pieces and it goes back to what, I forgot that was in there. If you take a look at the puzzle pieces, Social Security is a big piece of the puzzle. Your pension is probably the largest than Social Security.

April: Absolutely. So yeah, so we're gonna dig more into Social Security on March 24th on our webinar.

John: Would you go back for one second. I want to address will Social Security ever go away. I hear people all the time being told you better do this, you better do that, because Social Security is going to go into bankruptcy. I think that's pure hogwash. We're going to see changes and there should be changes. Politicians should have already done it. We never should have been allowed to take Social Security at age 62, it should have been longer. We'll cover that we can have our webinar. But I don't think we'll ever see it go away, we will see it modified, we'll see more of the benefits taxed, will pay more and more into the system to make it stay solvent. We may see our benefits reduced some. But I don't think we'll ever see it go away.

April: I don't think so either. I think there's going to be, they're going to have to make changes. And let's be honest, they're going to wait to the 11th hour to make those changes.

John: Well, what we shouldn't do is lock everybody in Congress in a big room and say you're not allowed to leave until you get this resolved. Doesn't matter if you're Democrat, Republican, Independent, Mickey Mouse, Pluto, whatever the hell you call yourself, you're not leaving until you get the people's business taking care of,

April: Agreed. Okay, we're gonna move on, for sake the of time to.

John: Wait a minute, I've got a lot more I want to say.

April: I know you do. 

John: You're not letting me do it.

April: I know you do! So, um, we're going to move on and talk about Medicare. Okay, so Medicare is very complicated. I'm going to go ahead and tell you it's very complicated. And you want to make this is one of the areas where you could have some pitfalls. Okay. And here's one of the main things with Medicare is you've got to make sure that you enroll on time when you are supposed to enroll to avoid any penalties. Okay. Now, if you are a member of the Florida Retirement System, and you're working for the state, or university, or what have you, one of the things you're going to want to do is if you when you retire, and you're going to be over 65, you want to check into what Medicare plans are available to you, as a, into the retiree health insurance, okay. 

So that's one thing you want to look at, and making sure that you enroll on time. Your HR departments are very helpful about knowing what you need to enroll in and when, okay. But there are two ways to get Medicare. You have Original Medicare, which is Parts A and B. And you're going to add on a supplement plan and a drug plan. Or you have what's called a Medicare Advantage plan. That's Part C, and that's where everything is included in one. Okay.

John: When is the Medicare webinar? I know you got one planned.

April: I'm so glad you asked. John, I'm so glad you asked. We happen to be having a Medicare webinar on May 26th. Okay, and we're gonna go through all of the nuts and bolts of Medicare from A to Z. There's a lot of letters in Medicare, if you've read anything up on it.

John: Well, you know, I'm a geek about that. That and Social Security are second only to FRS for me.

April: Do you wan to talk about the hidden costs. Do you want to talk about IRMAA for a second becuase I know next we're going to talk about required minimum distributions, which will tie back in so.

John: I'll let me do it briefly. And because of time, but when you retire, and you're required to take money out of your retirement accounts, you have to be extremely careful how you do that. We've had people who take a big chunk of money out to travel, and then they get hit with something called IRMAA. Income Related Monthly

April: Adjustment Amount 

John: Adjustment Amount. Thank you. I went blank there for a moment. I don't know why because I sure as hell feel it every month. But if you take out too much in a lump sum to push in another tax bracket or a IRMAA bracket, then you would find instead of paying the $170.10 per month, that Part B costs now, you could find having to pay more. They don't call it a tax, they call it an excess premium, but it's a form of tax. And you could be paying as much as $500 per month for your Medicare Part B if your income is high enough. Now I hear people always say I'll never been in that capital bracket. Well, you could be. 

Because if you close down an IRA, if you close out a deferred comp account, and you take all that money in one lump sum, it could push you into that bracket. We've seen that. And there's a two year look back. So this is truly a hidden cost that people don't know about. And we didn't know about it for a long time until we were helping clients and learned about it, sai whoa, wait a minute, what is that? That's one of the beauties of being around a long time, is we see things that other people haven't experienced yet. We can help them because we've helped so many other people. Right. But, we'll cover more of that when we get into our Medicare webinar.

April: Absolutely. Now, let's talk about required minimum distributions. So if you do not know what a required minimum distribution is.

John: Time out. Are we going to do a webinar on that, too?

April: I do not have one planned. 

John: I think we should.

April: We should, there's a lot of misinformation out there. So I'll put that one on the calendar. Um, so with your required minimum distribution, and we caught RMDs, for short, because it's a mouthful. With your RMDs, how that works is you can defer taking income from your pre tax retirement accounts until you're 72. And at 72 the IRS says you have to start taking money out of those accounts. Now, it used to be 70 and a half. So some of you might being saying no, it's 70 and a half. And you're right, it used to be 70 and a half. And a couple years ago, they passed the Secure Act, which delayed it to age 72. Okay, so that's when you must take money out of your retirement accounts. And there is a, there is a schedule you have to follow. So you can't just take $1 out and satisfy it, they have a specific amount that you have to take out every single year.

John: And the longer I live, the higher the percentage is I have to take out, which means I can't just stick my money somewhere and ignore it. Because I may find that I'm making 1% on my account balance, but I having to take out four or 5%. So now I'm tapping into my principal faster, and I'm running out of money faster. On the other hand, I can't be so aggressive, that if I lose 15, 20 or 30%, like we saw in 2008. 40% losses. It's hard to recover that from that. So this gets into discussion, not just about how you're investing money today for retirement, but also how will you, what's your distribution plan? Will you have a plan of your own that you create? Or will you accept the IRS version, which is take out RMDs each year based on their formula, because you do have the right and the ability to design a different plan as long as you satisfy the government requirements.

April: Right. And that's why it's so important to look at this. If someone on the call is listening to this later, and you're retiring at 62. You may be thinking this doesn't have anything to do with me. I have 10 years. And I would say that's not true. Because we've got a plan today, what you're gonna do for income between now and 72. And then what happens after. And there is a correct order to doing things financially. A correct order of operations, right. And this is really what it comes down to and how we tie all of these pieces together. When do you take Social Security? What pension option do you take? What do you do with your retirement accounts? What do you do with your investments, what's healthcare going to look like? What's your required minimum distributions going to be? That's how we tie it all together to make sure that you're not missing anything. That you're not leaving money on the table from some of your benefits, that you're not going to get charged too much in penalties from the IRS or taxes from the IRS, or even those IRMAA premiums from Medicare.

John: I just had something to go through my mind I hadn't thought about in a while, April I have a picture up there of an airplane. When I was in the Air Force I was a crew chief on the B-52 Bomber. And before every plane took off, we had a pre flight checklist. And we had to make sure, back then it was a grease pencil, because it was covered in plastic and you checked everything off. What went through my head is you were going through this. We have our secure retirement scorecard. But it made me think about that pre flight and post flight checklist we would use. And that's what we do every time with clients. We're making sure in, while you're still working, that's pre flight. But when you retire, that's post flight. And I never, I've never said it that way before. I've talked about working on the plane but that's truly what we're doing is we're making sure you got the right checklist on the way toward retirement. And then a checklist coming out of retirement. 

April: Absolutely. Well said. 

John: And if you miss, if you miss one of the items on the checklist people's lives were in danger with an airplane. Eight crew members lives were in our hands every time that plane took off. That's pretty heavy for a guy who's 18 years old when I was doing that nonsense. It wasn't nonsense, but I look back on it now, it's formed a lot of what I do now as far as my attention to detail and making sure stuff's right.

April: Absolutely. So here's what I would say that no matter where you are, no matter if you think you can wait or not, you have to be proactive with your money. You have to be proactive with your decisions. Because if you don't know what all your choices are, then and you wait, what's going to happen then? Right? So I want you to imagine for a second, imagine that you wanted to buy a house. And let's say you say, I want to buy a house three years from today. But in those next three years, you don't think about it. You don't look at your income. You don't think about how to get a loan, you don't care about your credit score at the time, or how much are you going to need for a down payment. You don't look at any of it. 

And then let's fast forward three years, okay. And it's gonna be no surprise to you that you're not buying a house tomorrow, okay? Because you didn't do any of the planning that you needed to do. So what if you were proactive about it? Today, you said I want to buy a house in three years. But you start thinking about it today. And you said, you know what, let me start dreaming about what kind of house do I even want to buy? Do I want that three-two ranch style? Do I want a townhouse? Do I want a house that's big enough for all the kids and grandkids? What kind of house do you want? Where do you want to live? Do you want to live in a neighborhood that's family friendly? Maybe you want to live in like, you want the hustle and bustle of being in like a downtown area, or a community that's for 55 and older. 

Or maybe even say, I don't want to be in the city at all, I want to be more rural. I want to go buy me some land and live on the land for my retirement, right? So just imagine you start dreaming about what house you want, and where you want to live. And then you start looking at, okay, how much is this house going to cost? What are my options for how I'm gonna finance it? You start going to meet with realtors and mortgage brokers and getting all this information together. How different is that going to feel? Because if you do that, if you take the time to be proactive with your money and making these decisions, it's gonna make all the difference in the world for you. And today, what I would say is that we talked about a lot, and honestly, we probably talked about too much. And so if it was overwhelming to you, I'm sorry, I am, because we just threw a lot at you.

John: I'm not sorry. Because these are issues if they don't deal with it, whether he's with us or someone else, it's going to bite them in the butt. And they're going to be in trouble. So no, no, sorry. I just wish we had three hours to do it. Maybe someday we should do that. But I'm just concerned about people's attention span for three hours.

April: Absolutely. It's a lot for three hours. And so you know, we did we talked about a lot. We talked about different strategies that you can implement, right? And, but the question is now going to be what's right for you. So I would recommend that we schedule a time for a strategy session. Okay, and this is a call that's going to be with me or it's going to be with John, and it's going to be a time for you to get clarity. Clarity on your financial goals and concerns. Clarity about what opportunities are available to you. Okay, is it one of the strategies we talked about? Okay, what specific steps do you need to take that's gonna save you time and money and get you where you want to be even faster. But here's also something that's true. I know is true. Is I don't know yet. We don't know yet if we're the right fit for you, because we're not the right fit for everybody. 

But I will say this. Scheduling a time for a strategy session, now these are complimentary, we do not charge for a strategy session. It's usually about a 30 minute phone call, okay. And at the end of that call, we'll know if we're a good fit to work together. Okay, I just had someone I met with earlier this week, and we talked and we're a good fit, but not right now. He needs to wait a few months. But that's not for most people. He just has some extra things going on in his life right now that needs to get worked out. But there are some things we're gonna help them with in the meantime. So but that's where we can learn in the strategy session where we're a good fit enough. Okay. So how you know that this call is is for you is if you're motivated, right. You want to have a plan for retirement, it's important for you to reach these goals, okay. You're committed to reaching these goals, right. 

You want to have this lifestyle in retirement that you want, and you want to make sure that you have all the pieces in the right place. Okay, if you're coachable and you're willing to learn and be open minded, and if you take action. So John and I are both action takers. We love working with people who want to get in here, roll up your sleeves, get to work, and make sure that we get this done for you. Okay. So that's how you know if it's for you, alright? If it's, this is not for you is that it if you're not coachable, okay. If you're not willing to listen, you don't want to come in and hear some other ideas. And if you're expecting some unpaid consulting, okay. That's how you know it's not right for you. But I would say this, having this 30 minute call, like I said, it's going to help you get clarity about where you are today. And really where you need to focus on going forward.

John: Let me offer this, that 30 minute strategy session, if they never worked with us, gives them clarity and gives them a track to run on. They will at least have an idea of what needs to be done. They can do it themselves, or go somewhere else if they don't want to work with us. Do you agree?

April: Absolutely. Yep. And I get this question a lot, too. But there's nothing you need to prepare for the call. Okay. Just bring it, you know, grab a notebook, we can do it over the phone, we can do it over Zoom. Grab a cup of coffee, grab some tea, and let's just have a conversation. Okay, we'll have some things we'll walk through with you.

John: A good friend of mine says let's just conversate.

April: That's right. So there's a couple of ways that you can schedule a call. You can call into our main office at 850-562-3000. And ask Crystal or Zac to schedule your strategy session with me or with John. You can send me an email at april_schoen@glic.com, okay. Or you can also go to our website, which is johnhcurry.com/call. C A L L. And I know that's a lot. I don't expect you to write all that down and remember it, I will just think about this, I will make sure I send a quick email out to those on the call so that they have the link to be able to book a call.

John: And also, I'm assuming, I should not assume, we are recording this and it will be repeated. Correct?

April: Mm-hmm.

John: Very good.

April: Well, great. Well, thank you guys so much for joining us on the call today. We really appreciate it. Hope you guys have a wonderful day and we look forward to talking to you soon.

John: Enjoyed it, April. Good job as usual. Thanks, folks.

April: Thank you.

Voiceover: If you'd like to know more about John Curry's services, you can request a complimentary information package by visiting johnhcurry.com/podcast. Again, that is johnhcurry.com/podcast. Or you can call his office at 850-562-3000. Again, that is 850-562-3000. John H Curry chartered life underwriter, chartered financial consultant, accredited estate planner, master's in science and financial services, certified in long term care. Registered representative and financial advisor of Park Avenue Securities LLC. Securities, products and services and advisory services are offered through Park Avenue Securities a registered broker dealer an investment advisor. Park Avenue Securities is a wholly owned subsidiary of Guardian. North Florida Financial Corporation is not an affiliate or subsidiary of Park Avenue Securities. Park Avenue Securities is as a member of FINRA and SIPC. This material is intended for general public use. By providing this material we are not undertaking to provide investment advice for any specific individual or situation or to otherwise act in a fiduciary capacity. Please contact one of our financial professionals for guidance and information specific to your individual situation. All investments contain risk and may lose value. Past performance is not a guarantee of future results. Guardian, its subsidiaries, agents or employees do not provide legal, tax or accounting advice. Please consult with your attorney, accountant and or tax advisor for advice concerning your particular circumstances. Not affiliated with the Florida Retirement System. The Living Balance Sheet and the Living Balance Sheet logo are registered service marks of the Guardian Life Insurance Company of America. New York, New York copyright 2005 to 2020. This podcast is for informational purposes only. Guest speakers and their firms are not affiliated with or endorsed by Park Avenue Securities, or Guardian and opinions stated are their own.

2022-141150 Expires September 2024

Life Insurance: The Essential Financial Tool Everyone Loves to Hate

What’s the most important thing you can do today for yourself and your family?

Plan for life insurance--before it’s too late.

But what type of life insurance should you buy? When should you buy it? And who should you buy it from?

How can you create wealth for yourself today AND leave a legacy behind when you die?

This podcast episode breaks down life insurance fundamentals and shows you how to get the most out of this essential financial tool. 

Listen to learn:

  • Why you can’t wait any longer to plan for life insurance

  • The common life insurance mistakes to avoid

  • Which life insurance strategy is right for you

  • How to use life insurance to grow wealth while you’re alive

  • And more

Mentioned in this episode:

Transcript

April Schoen: Hello, everyone, and welcome to our webinar today, which is going to be all about life insurance. Life Insurance, The Essential Tool That Everyone Loves To Hate. I just love that title. Again, just say thank you and welcome. My name is April Schoen. And I am sitting here today with John Curry. 

John Curry: Hello, April. Hello, everyone. 

April: John is the author, his new book that just came out recently, which is The Secure Retirement Method: Life Insurance, The Essential Tool That Everyone Loves To Hate. And we recently announced the book was published and available for people, you can purchase it on Amazon. And then we were also sending out some complimentary copies as well. And we had an overwhelming response to the book, which got John and I thinking we should have a webinar because we typically host webinars anyway, about once a month on retirement planning topics. And we said we should have a webinar. So we can go into more detail, because we're already starting to get some great feedback on the book and some good questions.

John: I think we should refer to this as being like a book overview. And I encourage you to read the book. Any book that we write is designed, you can read it in 60 to 90 minutes, make it quick, easy read. So it's not heavy stuff.

April: Absolutely. And if you if you're on the call, or you're listening to this later, as a podcast, and you don't have a copy of the book, we're gonna get to that in just a few minutes how you can make sure to get your copy. So John, anything from your perspective about today's webinar, before we dive in?

John: I just want to talk about the importance of this topic. And we'll get into some of that. But I want to add to that upfront, I'm 69 years old, just turned 69 in December. My life insurance, particularly my whole life insurance I've had all these years is more important to me now than when I was a young man. And let me explain why. With all of the market volatility, we're seeing, the cash raised, and my life insurance policies go up every day. They never, never, never have a bad day, they don't go down. They only go up. 

That money is protected from the market volatility and other protections we'll get into. The reason that life insurance is so important to me at 69 years old, I have a lot of clients that are older than me, because I've been doing this for 47 years now. The life insurance death benefit allows me to spend other assets and leaves a legacy behind. We'll touch on that in more detail in a moment. The cash values allow me to be more aggressive with some of my investment money.

April: And I know we're going to talk about that more as well, as we go through the presentation.

John: Very good. I just want to emphasize this, folks. Pay attention. There's some I promise you that matter if you're 19 years old, or 99 years old, there are some things here you're going to learn. Whether you have life insurance or not. And if you're interested in talking about life insurance, let us help you with that.

April: So before we can get into this, a little couple of housekeeping items. Once this is recorded, it's going to be on our website as a podcast, which we'll get into how you can get there as well to see that information. And tell you a little bit about about John and I, if you are new to our world. If you're new to us, welcome. We're glad you're here. And just to let you know a little bit about who we are. We, John and I, we typically work with people who are getting ready to retire. Many of them are members of the Florida Retirement System. And I was just actually having a call with someone earlier today, who's going to be retiring in May, May 31st. 

And what we find is that a lot of our clients when we first meet with them, they they struggle because they've been so busy with their careers, with their families, that they just haven't had the time to really devote to their finances. So sometimes they get frustrated, sometimes they get anxious. Gentleman today said, April, we have no we've never done this, I have no idea what to do with the money in my retirement account when I retire. So what we want to do, what we do, is we help them understand a lot in a short amount of time. Because everyone wants to make sure that they're making the right decisions for their future, right. We all want to make sure we're making the right decisions. 

And sometimes our clients who just don't know how to get started or where to start. So we help them learn a lot in a short amount of time. So that they have systems in place and they're confident, that their money is actually working for them and they're on track to reach their goals. And part of our work that we do when we do retirement rehearsal or we're doing planning for someone, is we do look and talk about life insurance and who gets what when you die. How do they get it? And we just have these overall conversations about, about the planning side.

John: I want to make a comment real fast. This person that you're talking about and other persons we've dealt with over the years. They had time. They just didn't take the time. So the most important thing you can do for yourself and your family, whether it be April and me or another advisor, take the time to sit down with someone and get some help. I'll give you a quick story of myself. 10 seconds, 30 seconds. Just this morning, when I was getting my leg adjusted at the orthopedic place, orthotics, the young man was telling me how his mother is in a position now that she's having to protect every dollar because she can't enjoy it. She's fearful of losing it, since her husband died. And that's another example of where with proper planning, they didn't do it. They did no planning. None. Now he's worried about his mom running out of money. Take the time and do the planning, first. The products come second.

April: Absolutely. We talked about that every day. So I know some of you may have to jump off the call early. So I want to make sure that you have our contact information, you can reach us at our office, which is 850-562-3000. You can also send us an email, my email is April_Schoen that's S C H O E N @glic G L I C .com. And then also, our website is johnhcurry.com. And on our website, you can find all sorts of information. You're going to see our podcasts are posted there, as well as some links to be able to see our webinars, you can schedule a call with someone in our office as well. And so today, we're going to be talking about some specific strategies that you can implement. 

And it's incredibly important, I can't under stress this that you just don't do this without seeking professional advice. So you just don't make a rash decision, right that you just pull the trigger and do something that it's actually thought out, right. So one of the things I would recommend that you do is schedule a time for a strategy session. And at a strategy session, here's what we're going to help you. We're going to help you get clear on what opportunities are available to you. We're going to talk about what are the roadblocks, what's holding you back. 

And we're going to talk about specific steps that you can take, that's going to save you time and money so that you can get to where you want to go even faster. So you've got a couple of ways you can schedule a strategy session. You can call our office directly. 850-562-3000 and ask to schedule a call with either John or with myself. You can also email us or do it straight from the website. The book, as I mentioned earlier, was recently released, but it's available, you can purchase it on Amazon, you can get a paperback version or Kindle. 

So you can go straight to Amazon to request your copy there. You can also request your copy by, our complimentary copy, by calling our office or sending us an email and we can send you either the electronic version, or we can send you a hardcopy as well. And I'll make sure John, when I send a, I'll send a follow up email too and make sure that everybody has the link where they can get the book if they want

John: Very good. So, by the way, some of you might be asking, why are we sending that out? No charge. I'm gonna tell you my attitude about the books. I'm on a mission to help as many people as I can, with whatever time I have left in this world. I'm in great health other than an amputation back in March of last year. But working through that. But, I to the point of where if I can help someone, whether they do business with us or not, doesn't matter. And that's why our books are so important. So help yourself to them and spread the word, and people you love and care about, make sure they have access to it, also.

April: Perfect. Well, John, let's get started. And here we are going to go through a little bit of an introduction. And then we're going to talk about really just this idea of life insurance. And I love this first topic, this fear of death and why people don't talk about it. So why don't we start there, John.

Let's do it. I can't tell you how many hundreds of times I've heard during the years in this business. I don't want to talk about life insurance. I don't want to talk about estate planning. I don't want to talk about what happens when I die. For some reason, more so in our country than others. We have this fear of talking about dying, but yet every one of us will die. It's not if you die, it is when you die. And once people understand that it is not some big boogeyman trying to get you, and they understand I need to talk about this so that I don't leave a mess behind. And that leads into there's questions about life insurance, you know. Should I buy life insurance, or not my life insurance? Do I want to pay my money on it instead of spending it or investing it. 

But the, I look at it this way. If you will sit down with an advisor once a year. I do it around my birthday roughly within a week or so my birthday. Each year review everything I've got. What's working, what's not working, what I need to improve But if you'll do that, then the fear is gone. Because you have a plan, you have a plan in place. I can say with total total confidence if I dropped dead right now midsentence, my wishes are carried out. Because I have the life insurance in place, I have my investments in place. And I have my will and trust in place. And all of my important papers like durable power of attorney and things like that. But those are the things that, that people fear talking about, because it's the subject of dying.

April: And then these big questions about life insurance, which I know we're going to talk over, we're going to go through these in our presentation today. But what are these big questions that people may have about life insurance?

John: There's three of them. What type of life insurance should I buy? When should I buy life insurance, and who should I buy it from? And I always have fun with the third one, of course, you should buy it from us. But what type? We'll get into that in more detail in a few minutes. But basically, there's two times. You've got permanent insurance that never goes away. As long as you're alive you've got it. You have term insurance, which is temporary coverage. It's you buy it for 10 years, 15, 20 years, 30 years, whatever. 

It is like renting, you're renting instead of owning. And most people don't like the idea of renting if they count. And then when should you buy it? As soon as possible, while you're healthy. For two reasons. One, your health determines the rating that you get, and your premiums will be lower. It's, I heard a saying one time I came in this business in 1975 on the life insurance side. You buy it with your good health, you pay for it with your money.

April: Right. Good. And then for those on the webinar today or if someone requested the book or maybe they're even listening to this as a podcast later, there is this information for?

John: Well, the short answer is for anyone who is even thinking about or they own life insurance. So if they're thinking about getting any, this is good for them. Someone who owns life insurance, and they look at it as being a necessary evil, then learn how to use that life insurance better.

April: Right. Good. And I know this last one here, we talked about planning, over products. Planning, not products. Something we talk about every day with our clients. So let's talk about that a little bit and why that's important for this discussion today.

John: As you said that, something just popped in my head. I'm thinking of a gentleman who came in one time, it was back in the 80s. And I'll use this story quickly to make the point. He came in, he pointed his finger at me and said, Curry, I want to buy this product, and it through illustration on the table of life insurance. I want it. If you can't get it for me, I'm going somewhere else. He was a good friend, good client. I said Bill, I don't agree with you, this product is not right for you. Let's talk about what you're trying to accomplish. I told you, either you sell it to me or I'm buying it elsewhere. I said hang on. 

Got the paperwork and did it. Almost 13 months, like two days shy of 13 months, we're at a Rotary Club meeting, he said I screwed up. Will you please meet with me and we'll do the planning, I've got to get out of this product. It's not the right product. I said I told you that up front. He said, I know, it's on me, so we redid it. So if you don't do the planning first, it's very likely that you will end up buying a product that doesn't work for you. So you've wasted time, your energy and your money. And if you're unhealthy, all of a sudden, like when I had an open heart surgery back in 2008. All of a sudden, you can't get life insurance. So the planning is critical. Before you go out and spend your money buying a product.

April: And I think so too. And so the way I say it from a planning perspective, is that you just can't make a decision in a vacuum. We can't just look at one thing and say this is what you should or should not do. You have to take it all into consideration. It's there's no one size fits all.

John: Well, you know, much smart aleck, smart aleck answer is you can do that. But you're not going to be happy with the results.

April: Correct. I had someone tell me one time, like April, can't you just tell me? Like, isn't there just a blanket answer on this? And I said, no, I wish there was I probably make my job a lot easier. But there's not. It's not a one size fits all. It has to be individual.

John: Yeah, we're not like the talking heads on television and radio that can just spurt out stuff. We have certain rules and regulations and regulatory people that we have to answer to.

April: That's right. So now we're gonna get into all those discussions and really kind of dig into you know, life insurance, what is it? Different types, how they work? When does it fit into your life? So before we do that, let's just kind of give an overview, John, about where does life insurance fit? Because one of the things we talk about is how life insurance works in every stage of life. And then we're gonna hit the high points here and then I know we're gonna dig in deep as we go, go through the presentation.

John: Alright, good. Well I'm gonna pick on being single for a minute. When I was single, I owned life insurance and a lot of my clients because I was 22 years old when I started, they were single. And people would ask me, why in the world should I buy life insurancy policy when I'm single? I said do you think you'll be single forever? Well, I hope not. Okay. So when you get married down the road, do you think you'll love that person enough to want to have life insurance to protect them? And cover debt? Yes. Think you might buy a house and have a mortgage? Yes. Then why would you start your program today? Save money for your future and cover the liabilities later? Same thing for a young couple and a family, like you.

April: Yeah, so I'm good example, you know, I'm 38. Married, I have two boys who are five and eight. And so for me, life insurance is a big part of our plan. And I know we're going to talk in specifics, but I'll go in and kind of tell you a little bit of what I have, and what I've done personally. But I have, we talk about there's different types of insurance, term and permanent. Where do they fit in with someone's overall plan, which we're going to talk more about the different coverages. But I'll go ahead and give you the Cliff's Notes version is that I have both. 

And that both fit in with my overall plan, and that for a lot of our clients, they have both because they serve different needs. So but for sure, for me, one of the biggest risks that I face financially, it's really two that I think of. One is to my family. So if something happens to me tomorrow, and I die, and I can't get up and go to work tomorrow, then my family is going to have a financial loss. And it's my responsibility to make sure that they're provided for. So there's that side. And then, this is not a discussion for today. But the other risk that I face is same thing, if something happens to me tomorrow, but I don't die, I just can't get up and go to work. And my income still stops. So that's, those are the two biggest risks at my age, 38, that I face.

John: They're the biggest risk all of us face no matter our age, because even in retirement, if you become disabled, now, that's a form of long-term care need. So death and disability will definitely mess up your income streams.

April: Yes. And then soon to retire. So as I mentioned earlier, John, I work with a lot of people who are getting ready to retire, most of those people are probably I would say, one to five years. But really, when we look at someone soon to retire might be even someone who, let's say is 50 and older. And we're really looking at some overall financial planning, there's lots of reasons why someone in that group may want to have have insurance. They may be looking at it and saying, hey, I'm gonna lose my group coverage that I have insurance through my work, and that's going to go away when I retire. They may have still some debt, they want to make sure it's covered. Obviously, legacy. You want to make sure there's something that's left behind to future generations,

John: I'm surprised at the number of people that we meet with, who they've given no thought to the fact that they're going to lose their group insurance coverage when they retire. And all of a sudden, it hits them. Oh, my God. Even though 60, 65, 70 even. I don't want to lose that. I want that to be there for my family. And now they got to pay a higher premium because they waited so long. And the sad part is when people who want it, they got the money to pay for it, but they can't get it because they have health issues.

April: Right. What about leaving money to charity? Where does it fit in there?

John: Well, I love this one. I have three life insurance policies on me that are payable specifically to foundations. Foundations that I love and care about the work they're doing. So the way I structured it, I set it up where they are the owner of the policies, therefore the premiums I pay are deductible. Some people can't deduct it because of the standard deduction being so high. So I wanted to make sure that the gifting that I do while living would continue upon my death. It could be your church, it could be a charity. For me one's a hospital, one's a Rotary Foundation, one is the million dollar roundtable foundation. But those are things that I want to make sure that upon my death money is there.

April: And for people who are charitably inclined, who are giving, it is a good resource. It is a good way to make sure that their ultimate wishes are carried out.

John: Absolutely. Because let's just take a small number, let's just say you're giving $1,000 a year to a church or a charity of some kind. No, upon your death that's gone. But it would be very easy if you just did a small life insurance policy or dedicated part of your coverage to go to them. Now you can continue that in perpetuity.

April: Absolutely. 

John: Done properly.

April: And that's a legacy discussion. Part of what we talk about in planning is how important is that to you to leave a legacy and who are you going to leave that legacy to? Is it kids? Is it grandchildren? Is it organizations you care about? Is it a pet? Right? So it that's all part of that legacy discussion. What's important to you? Right, in the decisions that we make.

John: By the way, you make a comment about pets. Long long time ago, I've only had this happen one time in my career. When it first happened I thought, when it happened rather, I thought, wow this is weird. Lady wanted to leave money to her pets. Well she had no children. So I said, okay, I can't name your dogs as a beneficiary. What we can do is you can leave the money to someone in trust that you trust to take care of them. So she did that. She actually went and got a trust document, built up. 

And she died several years ago, long before you came to work with me. And I want to talk about that for just a minute. April joined me eight and a half years ago. And now, we used to talk about wanting to make sure I have a team to protect my clients. It's no longer my clients, it's our clients. We work together. And I have the peace of mind of knowing, practice what I preach, that if I died today, not only is my personal finances taken care of, but our clientele are taken care of because of April, Zac, and other teammates.

April: Yep. Very important. Succession planning, right? Not just in business, but also in personal too.

John: Absolutely, absolutely. Which is a good, that's a good segue to business owners. If you own a business, or you think you will own a business in the future, before you go into business, you should also have an exit strategy. So you got a front door and a back door. We talked about this all the time, in personal and business planning. If you enter something through the front door, but what if you have to get out? Work on that ahead of time. And with business owners, we can help them with exit strategies. Life insurance is important to a business owner for key person insurance. Buy sell, so that they die, somebody has the mind to buy them out. And vice versa. 

April: Absolutely.

John: This last one, I love this. As you know, I own a lot of life insurance policies on children, grandchildren and now great grandchildren. Why do I do that? It is going to be tough enough for them in the future. On their own. Life insurance is important. What if they can't get it because of health issues. I can almost guarantee you they're not going to have a pension plan. So the cash values in the life insurance policies that I'm building up now will help my children and grandchildren in the future. As long as I'm living I own it. On my death, they can become the owner. But I own it, it's an asset I control. 

All the cash value shows up on my balance sheet. So I'm losing nothing. All I'm doing is taking money, that's low utility sitting in savings not working, and put it over here into this. This product called life insurance. And if you haven't looked at that, folks, chat it with me about it, because I promise you I have a passion for that. It is really something you can do. They're gonna get the damn money anyway when you die. Why don't you help them now?

April: Yeah, well, I'm thinking about a client who did that too for their two children. This is kind of getting into some specifics, but they set up the policies where there's different types of policies we're going to get into, but one of the policies they did is called a 10 pay, which means you pay it for 10 years, and then you're done paying for it. So that was important to our clients, because they wanted to make sure that it was going to be completed, right. They felt that they could make the you know, obviously with their assets, they can make the premium payments for 10 years. They wanted to make sure that it was going to be self completing and not have to have any issues there. 

But when we looked through it, and it, I just remember the day going through the illustration, and them looking at it and saying, wait a minute, they're going to have how much cash value when they are 65? And they can do what with it? They can take a tax-free income from that policy. It's so powerful, what you can do with it. It's pretty neat. Alright, we're gonna get into talking a little bit kind of more fundamentals when it comes to life insurance. Let's talk about this concept of human life value, John. So first go through, talk to us about what is human life value. How does it relate to life insurance, and I know there's, we really think of two different schools of thought or two different philosophies when it comes to how much life insurance someone should have.

John: Very good. I'd love this topic. When I became a CLU and a ChFC, through the American College. I already got my master's degree there. We studied a lot of information from a gentleman named Dr. Solomon, who really turned the life insurance profession into a profession. At the time, it was kind of like dog eat dog, but he made it professional. And he wrote a book about human life value. And the best way to describe it is this. I'm going to use something totally unusual. So you, you have a house, you buy your home, and that's called property value. If you have a house worth a half a million dollars, how much insurance would you have on it? If it were to burn down and be blown away with a hurricane?

April: I hope I'd have at least half a million.

John: At least a half a million, but the correct answer is and you most everybody would do it. You would have replacement value. 

April: Replacement. Exactly. 

John: So isn't it interesting that all property value is a result of human life value. Meaning your ability, economic value to go earn a paycheck. And in the book I call it economic value also, because human life value is the economic value of you. If you were killed in a wrongful death situation, the attorneys would bring in experts to say, okay, 38 year old female, making X amount of money, she was on this glide path for the future. And then we work back into the present value. We can do that all day long with our software. 

So human life value simply says this, what would this person's economic value be over their lifetime, and then strive to have enough insurance to replace that value. But people don't do that. Well, I don't need that much. Well, you don't need $500,000 on your house either. What's the likelihood your house going to burn down. How many homes have burned down in your neighborhood? How many homes have been picked up with a tornado and blown away in your neighborhood. They look at me like I got two heads. They go, well none. 

So think about, you will go out and insure something. Homes, cars, jet skis, motorcycles, for full value, or replacement value. But yet the most important asset you have is your ability to earn a paycheck. Coming back to the death and disability. So economic value says let's determine what the economic value would be, the loss to your family and ensure that for as much as possible. And then another philosophy is simply, needs analysis. I don't need that much. I just need enough to cover the mortgage. And it's okay. It's the clients choice. Our job is to educate, the client's job is to decide which path they want.

April: Right, and so on needs base, again, looking at human life value. That's what I've done for my family, because it ensures that I have enough coverage that my family is provided for. Like I said earlier, if something happens to me tomorrow, my family would suffer, suffer an economic loss. 

John: Correct. 

April: So the insurance I have ensures that might have been nothing financially will change for my family. It means that the house stays the same and cars stay the same. And my husband can still take the two boys on vacations over spring break in the summer. It means future weddings are paid for and college is paid for. All those, all of those things that are important to me and my husband, the giving that we do, that continues on as well. Because all of these, these values that are important to us, they are all tied up in this ability for us to continue to earn this income, right. Earn any income.

John: And the most important thing you said in that, is what you want. 

April: Correct. 

John: Get rid of the word need. What do you want? So I don't need this. I know you don't need it. I don't need the life insurance I've got on me. I love it and I want it. And I keep paying premiums. I keep paying premiums on policies I don't even have to pay for it. I still do. Because it's building a ton of equity.

April: Absolutely. But yes, there are definitely two philosophies. And like you said, John, we do have people come in and say no, I just want to do like a needs analysis. And you know, you may look and say this is how much debt I have. I'm gonna pay for future college expenses, especially with a young couple. and things along those lines. Definitely the two, two kind of schools of thought. And then that leads us into how much life insurance should I buy? So how much life insurance should I buy? And then do those change? Do those needs change over time?

John: Well, we just talked about how much life insurance lasts either to replace as much as your economic value as you can, or whatever you feel like you need to cover a debt. And let's be candid, there's only two reasons you buy life insurance. It's because you love someone and want to take care of them or you owe someone. So if you have a big loan at the bank, maybe you have life insurance to cover that. The bank may even require you to have life insurance to cover that. And do life insurance needs and won't change over time? Absolutely. Absolutely. Some people think that when I retire, I don't need it. That may be true, you may not need it, but you may still want it. If you understand how to use it. Sadly, most people do not understand, including agents, insurance agents, how to use life insurance in retirement.

April: And I know we have, we get this question a lot too, clients ask, will I ever be able to self insure or have I reached a point where I can self insure? And yes, that does that can happen and does happen. So I'll say this too, is if someone is listening and they don't have any insurance, if you don't have any insurance, then your assets become your insurance. Right? Then your assets, your investments, your retirement account, your savings, they have to do both. They have to provide liquidity for you and income for you when you're in retirement .If you're married, provide that income for your family, any sort of legacy wishes that you have. So if you don't have insurance, your assets become your insurance.

John: Let me say it this way. What you've done is you've locked your assets up. They're in a box, you can't really spend the principal. If you spend your principal, what happens to your income? If you spend the principal, less money going to the family and you can't take any risk. You can't participate as well as other people can in the market because you're fearful of losing your money. And that's why the life insurance for me is so important at this stage of my life, because you know, I add money to my investment account, it's extremely aggressive. But I don't have to worry about. I don't even know if it's up or down today, I don't care. Just keep adding the money each month, and don't worry about it. It will all work out if you're invested. And you've done the planning first.

April: Correct. So let's talk about these different types of coverage, John. So we really think of life insurance and we break it into two categories. There's all different kinds of life insurance, but at the end of the day, we break it into term insurance, and then permanent insurance. So these two types of policies, the way that I explain them is I say term insurance is and this is also in the book, but term insurance is similar to renting. If I have a term policy, it means that I have insurance for a set amount of time. 

So let's say you have a 20 year term policy, that means you pay a premium for those 20 years, and as long as you're paying the premium, you have this death benefit. The death benefit does not change over time, it remains fixed. And if you pass away in those 20 years, that death benefit is going to come in to your family or whoever you've named as a beneficiary tax free. Very important. Tax free benefits. But there's no equity, right? Term insurance is purely a protection only vehicle. It's similar to having homeowners insurance or car insurance. It's that what if coverage. If something happens to you in those 20 years. 

At the end of 20 years, that policy goes away, you stop paying premiums, but you don't have any insurance anymore, either. Okay, it's good and bad. If we compare that though, to permanent insurance, permanent insurance is, as it sounds, it's not temporary. It's meant to be in force, it's meant to be in place for your entire life. And you pay a premium, you still have a death benefit on the policy that comes into your family tax free. And depending on how the permanent policy is set up, the ones that we use, the death benefit actually increases over time, which is important. Especially if you think about cost of living, right, inflation, things are gonna cost more tomorrow than they do today.

John: We're experiencing that now.

April: We're experiencing that very much right now. Highest that we've seen in decades. And so it's important that our insurance rises as cost of living rises as well. And then, as you're paying premiums, part of the premium is going to go right into cash value. This is where you have equity in the policy. As that cash grows, it grows tax deferred. So you don't have to pay any tax while it's growing. It's liquid, it's an asset you can tap into if you want it or need it. And you can take it back out tax free as well as long as that's structured properly. And I know we're gonna talk a bit more about that cash value. But that cash value is also what we would consider to be a non correlated asset, which means it's not in the stock market. It doesn't have the same risk that stocks may have, it doesn't have the same risk that bonds have with interest rates.

John: Let's address the word risk for a minute. I've had people say, well, my money's sitting in the bank, because there's no risk. There's a risk in everything. There's inflation risk, market risk. So if your money is sitting somewhere and not growing, that's a risk because of inflation. But I've got two words I want to use. Term insurance, think of the word rent. You're renting, you have no ownership. Permanent, whether it be a whole life policy, universal life, and variable life, index life. There's pros and cons with all types of life insurance. But it's basically, it's a form of ownership, you own it. It's like your home, you have a choice, you can either own a house or rent a house. I've never found a person who told me they really prefer to rent. And that's not true. I thinking of a guy he sold his house and he rented until he died. He said no more cutting grass. None of that stuff. He moved to a condo in fact.

April: Absolutely. So we're gonna talk more about these different types. But really, we think of it as term insurance is a protection only vehicle because you are going to have it for a temporary amount of time. Permanent insurance or whole life insurance is more of a savings vehicle because not only do you have the death benefit, but you have the cash value.

John: I want to make a comment here, I tell every young couple, start with term get all you can get. Just get it all. If the company will give you 3 million get it, because it's very low cost. And as it gives you the ability to upgrade later if you choose to do so. So I say, get all of it you can get right up front, and then protect your family. And then you can always upgrade it. It's called converting but we call it upgrading it later.

April: And a lot of our clients that I mentioned earlier and myself included have both, where we've got term insurance to give us the death benefit protection that we want. And then we have the permanent insurance which goes more in line with our wealth building. And I think we're going to touch a little bit more on that too when we use that. But that's why I have both. I have term to protect my family and then I have the permanent coverage more for wealth building.

John: Let me throw something out for you folks. On page 17 in the book, you'll see a discussion of several different types of policies. And I go into some of how that works. But just be aware, we don't believe that there is a one size fits all. Plan first. And then if it comes down to what April just said, you may end up owning two, three or four different types of product slash policies to carry out your wishes. Like the grandparents who love the 10 pay policies. Pay for it for 10 years, and be done with it.

April: Absolutely. Okay, John. So someone's listening to this. And they're saying, okay, I may want to look at having some coverage, right? Make sense what I'm hearing so far. Want to look at this for our family. So when is the best time to buy insurance?

John: Well, you know the answer. Now. For two reasons. One, if you don't, you're gonna procrastinate. You see these commercials all the time about, you know, the husband said, I didn't buy the life insurance and the wife gets mad. And speaking about, I see, well we'll that at the bottom point. But once you do your planning, you know what you want, take action, take action. Don't fiddle around in waiting. In the book, I talk about examples of where people didn't. And I had to tell in both cases, the widow, I'm sorry, your husband did not give me a check, I don't have any benefit for you.

April: Right. So definitely important, the planning to get it done as soon as possible. That doesn't just include the life insurance that includes all of it. 

John: Everything. 

April: Legal documents. I can't tell you how many times we've seen where people had good intentions and didn't follow through. So it's important that you get these things buttoned up.

John: It's even worse, we see people who did go see the attorney, that got a draft, or they even got the document, but never sign all the documents. And they either became disabled, I'm thinking of a gentleman with a stroke that we got in front of in time to get it done. But he procrastinated for years and years and years. And let me hit the next one. I've been kidding around about who to buy insurance from. I said us. Of course you should buy it from us. But here's the real answer. You find someone that you can work with, you like, and you trust them. And they're straightforward. If somebody gives you a bunch of BS about something, get the hell up and leave. You're the consumer, you have a right to understand it. Our rule is simply this. Just be respectful, be coachable. And we'd love to help you.

April: And I'll say, too, about who you buy it from, we already hit this at the beginning, I'm gonna hit it again, because it's so important. I think you should work with someone who focuses more on the planning, not just the product who's not just trying to sell you something, but really sits down with you, understands what are your wishes? What are your goals? What are your concerns, what are you trying to accomplish? And how do we get you, they're not just trying to sell you a policy.

John: And I'll tell you the other thing. The way you're gonna get that is don't be cheap about it, sit down with somebody, pay them a fee for their time and their wisdom and their knowledge. We charge fees for our planning depending upon what we're doing. And then move forward if there is a desire to add products. And I'll loosely address something here. That takes pressure off of us also, because we don't, we do not have to sit there and sell a product. And I love that. Your position where you don't have to make a sale. I don't have to make a sale. That is a powerful position to be in because, folks, it ain’t our problem. Ours is taken care of. It's the client's problem that we're working on solving.

April: That's right. Yeah, it allows you to have an unbiased opinion, right and to give your, your honest thoughts and opinions based on your level of expertise and experience and you know, no bias there. Okay, John. So we get this occasionally. This last point. If someone is thinking about canceling their policy, or we see all the time, these ads about selling your policy to another company. Talk to us about what someone should do before they cancel their policy?

John: Well, first of all, they should talk with us, and to see how you can use your policy and to number one get educated. But It cracks me up that think about this. You have total strangers out there with insurance companies who would love to buy your policy. Why would somebody buy your life insurance policy from. It's because as Dr. Heitmer said there's an inevitable gain in a life insurance policy. Someday we are going to die. If we have a life insurance policy, then you want the family to get that benefit or a total stranger. And the biggest financial mistake I've ever made in my life was I canceled one of my whole life policies many many years ago. 

That was stupid. And the reason I did it is because I had policy loans against it. Instead of paying the loans back I got to the point where the interest was too high. And I thought I'd be better off just canceling and buying a new policy. I should not have done that. That's why I would take the time to help anyone understand their insurance and understand why, why it's important to keep it in force. At some point, if somebody doesn't want to get help, then that's okay. I'd give up too. But until they give up, I won't give up.

April: Absolutely. I say, first be educated on what you have, know what your options are, make sure you have all the information available to you. 

John: Correct. 

April: And then you can make the best decision for you and your family.

John: Or at least enough information on it that's pertinent to that challenge or problem.

April: Correct. Okay, now, this is the fun part. Because a lot of people think that life insurance is just about some money that's going to be left behind. Oh, someone's gonna get this money when I die, I'm not going to be able to use it. I'm not going to be able to use it for anything, why would I have life insurance? So I know you've got a chapter in the book all about this, about how to use life insurance the right way, even before you die. So let's talk about this a little bit about some. 

John: That's chapter five.

April: Scenarios where people can use life insurance along the way.

John: Okay. Because the time, may I just hit these kind of like a little quick forum? First of all, the first bullet point going beyond the death benefit. It's not just about dying, it's about using your policy to help you carry out your financial mission. Now, this will give you a quick example. And I'm going to have April come back in just a moment. Accessing the cash value, I have used the cash value of my policies to buy automobiles for me, children, one coming up probably for a grandchild, unless I just get, buy give them one. But how do you do that? You have a choice, you can take a policy loan from an insurance company, or you can set up a line of credit against the policy. 

I have a line of credit where I can go on the computer and I can transfer money to it if I want to. Right, now I don't have any outstanding balance on it. I don't like debt. The business uses of life insurance, key person life insurance, you've got somebody a top notch person, and they're important, and if they were to die would cost you money to your business. Or you want to keep them with you, you can set up what's called a non qualified deferred compensation account where you give them a benefit if they stay a certain period of time. Using life insurance in times of crisis. I can't even, dozens, probably two to three dozens of people during the crisis 2008 and 2009 that had to use the cash values in their policies to make loan payments on properties they own so they would lose them. 

I remember a medical doctor, who's now I think, actually passed away now. But he used the cash values of his insurance to meet payroll a couple of times, because he did not want the banker to know it, he did not want other people to know he was having some financial stress. So he had total privacy with us. So cash values. Maybe like some people, they use the cash value to pay their premiums for about six months, until they got back on their feet than they paid it back. I would like you to talk about your journey. Also the last one, life insurance as an asset class. Because you love investments even more than I do.

April: I do. So yes, I've told you a little earlier about, you know, I've got both types of insurance, term and permanent. Term is to protect my family. And then the whole life is more on the wealth building side. And, you know, John mentioned, I've been here about eight and a half years. And then I was with a previous firm for several years before that. So I've really been in the financial services business since 2010.

John: So you're an old, you're an old pro.

April: An old pro. That's right. And, you know, I really kind of come in and I have more of a background on the investment side. So that's really kind of more where my knowledge, experience, my passion lies on the investment side. And I really studied it. And I really saw the benefit of having the life insurance as part of my wealth building. And, you know, I won't go into too much detail today for sake of time, so I'm happy to chat offline about it. But basically, because I have the whole life that I do, because I have the cash value on my balance sheet that is safe, secure, the good rate of return, tax efficient, all those reasons for the cash value, it actually allows me to be more aggressive in my other investments. 

So when we look at life insurance as an asset class, we think of a couple of different things. We're really we're talking about permanent insurance, because term is not going to help you here because term has no cash value. So when we think about having life insurance as an asset class, it's going to be some sort of policy that's going to build cash value. And we like the type that have more guarantees and aren't says, you know, don't have the market volatility. Because you can have life insurance, variable life insurance, that's tied more to the market. But here we don't want to use that for this. We want it to be more of what we call this non correlated asset. This cash value that's growing on your balance sheet that's not in the market. 

So last year, no it was two years ago now. So you think about March of 2020, right. Pandemic, COVID is just getting started. And the market, the S&P is down 30, 35 30 to 35%, in like 23 trading days. I mean, it's happening so fast that people could not get out in time, even if they wanted to. Here's what the cash value allows you to do, the cash value actually allows you to stay invested, because our cash values never went down during that time. So it's not in the market, it's not susceptible to market losses. And it's also protected from interest rate risk as well, because then we think about bonds, we could have a whole discussion webinar just on that piece. 

John: We should do that.

April: We should do that. The issue with bonds right now is one, you're getting very low yield, because interest rates are so low, but then you also have a lot of risk, because we know interest rates are gonna go up, and when they start to go up, we're gonna see the value of our bonds go down. So it'd be good. I mean, we could maybe even do a case study and talk about where we use life insurance for the wealth building piece, but very important there to help you have some diversity and help smooth out some of that volatility.

John: Well, you and I were talking about this just yesterday, as it relates to me. You pointed out to me that I'm putting almost an equal amount into life insurance premiums each year and into my investment account. I had never looked at it quite that way. Just said okay, here's the premium, I'm paying it. Probably a little bit more on the premium side than I am on the investments. But it is a tremendous peace of mind. I don't want to sound cocky back, I do care what the market does. But it is so nice to not worry about what the market does. In fact, the other day when it was down, I added some money.

April: Absolutely. You know, and I'll say this, too. It's not all or nothing. Right. We're not saying only have insurance, only have investments. In fact, the two together work beautifully together.

John: There's synergy if this is properly designed. Either one by itself has weaknesses, but investment, savings and life insurance combined are powerful.

April: Absolutely. And that comes back to the planning. Good. Very true. Now this leads into because we talked about what you can, how can you use the life insurance like along the way, we're kind of we're talking about someone who's in their working years and different ways that they can maybe use the life insurance either for wealth building, or needing to tap into the cash value along the way. But let's talk about how it can help you in retirement.

John: I love this. Let me just hit the first one quickly. If you've done your planning properly, life insurance will help you make better choices on which accounts to take money from and how to take it. You see number three below there is avoid the tax deferred trap. All the money we put into retirement accounts are considered tax deferred accounts. We have to pay the tax someday. I've had so many people early in my career who come to me and say I've got all this money going into my 403b if they're a professor, state employee deferred comp. Business owners with our profit sharing plan and 401k's. 

I've got all this money, I don't need to do any planning. I don't need life insurance. Now I love to ask this question even today. Who will pay the tax on that money? And how will they pay the tax? Because all this money is great. But it will have a tax time bomb at some point. And life insurance can help cover that or at least replace the money that was lost the taxes. Backstop. If I wanted to, the life insurance cash values I have, I can flip the switch and turn that into retirement income. I can actually say I don't care about the death benefit anymore, give me more income. I can give it up if I wanted to. Or I could have some income and keep insurance. I get to pick and choose that. 

April: Very tax efficient. 

John: Absolutely. Right. And we tell people all the time, April, if you're going to spend something down while living, spend your retirement money, and leave other assets to family and friends if you want to, or even charities, because the retirement accounts are the most expensive dollars we have. And if you believe as I do, that the income tax rates are going back up. Think about it. You're deferring into an increased tax environment.

April: Absolutely. I say like the retirement accounts are the worst asset to leave behind to a non spouse. The worst under current tax law.

John: Absolutely. And I tell you what we do, folks. We've had people who say I'm gonna leave all this IRA money or this retirement money to my children. Well, let's do this. Let's take out enough of their earnings each year to purchase life insurance on you. So that money goes tax free, and then spend the rest of it. So sometimes we'll split the account. Take money over here to fund the insurance premiums and the rest of the money, spend it all. Turn it on and it's guaranteed lifetime income and just enjoy the heck out of it.

April: One thing we've had clients to to is use life insurance to help them when they're choosing which pension option to choose. 

John: Sure. Very important.

April: So that they can take a higher pension option that gives them more income, that maybe that's just going to give them an income for just their life, but then they have the life insurance to come in.

John: Correct. Now we already talked about the group insurance. So this allows you to get rid of the group term insurance. When you retire, you lose it, but you've now got yourself covered with the policy if you do it.

April: Perfect. Well, John, let's summarize here because we've talked about a bunch of different concepts all and in a short amount of time. So let's kind of summarize about where it can fit in for different people who are listening to this.

John: Well, I'm just gonna use a smart aleck answer. I think that if you are, if you're working, and you care about leaving income behind for someone, or if you're retired, and you want to protect all the assets you've worked for, so everyone on that screen, life insurance is important. And the only reason that most people don't have life insurance in place properly is they don't understand it. It can be a very confusing subject. 

April: Absolutely. 

John: But if you're single and listening to this, consider life insurance, because there's some organization you care about, maybe you have debt.

April: Or even on the wealth-building side. Not even just for the death benefit, but just to say, hey, I want what this does for me on a wealth-building side.

John: Well, I'm, thank you. I'm making that assumption that if you are buying life insurance, number one, the first question is, how will this help me create wealth? Today, and in my future. The death benefit, to me, that is something you have because you either owe, or you love. And but we can hit each one of these. Each topic up here, we could do an hour presentation on each one of those? Actually, we could do a full-blown seminar for three hours.

April: And young couple and family, I think we talked about that already. Gave the example, my situation in clients that we work with that are younger in their 20s 30s 40s and have kids. Obviously seeing a need there. We talked about soon to retire.

John: I'm gonna make a quick comment there and just have something flash in my head that I remember.  I remember, I touched on it a few times, but this one in particular. Guy said to me, right in front of his wife, I'm not buying all of this life insurance. So when I die, she can marry some other s.o.b. What he said. I won't even say the words. And she looked at me, looked at him, she has hurt. And finally we worked through it. And he did it. But he understood what he said was so harsh. 

But it's not about dying and leaving somebody a big bunch of money. He was worried his words were I don't want to leave her a bunch of money. Well, if you're worried about that, there are ways to structure your insurance and a way to take care of people you love and provide the income without leaving a big lump sum, if that's important to you. There are some people I promise you that they talk, hear about life insurance, and that's their reaction. I don't want to leave a whole bunch of money to my spouse. I want to spend it now.

April: So yeah, we talked about obviously, like soon to retired as we're like approaching retirement and going into retirement and ways that you can use the life insurance. We talked about leaving money behind a charity. I would also say even from a legacy, an overall legacy standpoint. Business owners, whether it's to help protect the business or business owner using it for personal planning, or cash flow planning, and then obviously life insurance, too, for your children and your grandchildren.

John: And that's the one that people love. Because they're they're able to do something, especially for the grandchildren. All of us grandparents love our grandchildren. In fact, we have a common enemy, the parent.

April: Well, today, we talked about several different strategies. We went through quite a quite a few actually. Strategies that if you're listening to this as you can implement, but here's the question, here's the hard part, is how do you know which one is best for you? 

John: And how do you get started? 

April: And how do you get started? And we said it before and I'll say it again, I think it's incredibly important that you don't just make a decision and do this without seeking professional advice. Because we want to make sure that you don't make some big mistake, like John was talking about the client earlier. And either it's going to cost you money, time, energy, you could have tax issues, there's a lot that can kind of go into it. You want to make sure that you're making the right decision. So I'd suggest that you schedule a time for a strategy session. And a strategy session, what we're going to do is we're going to get clear first, because the first thing we have to do is get clear about your financial goals and concerns. 

What's important to you? What do you want to accomplish? We want to talk about what opportunities are available to you. Is it one of the strategies that we talked about? And what's holding you back? What are the roadblocks, what's gonna get in your way from reaching your goals? And then what steps do you need to take to save time, money and get you the result that you want that you're looking for. And you know, I'll be honest, I don't know if we're a right fit for you. Because I'll be honest, we're not the right fit for everybody. But a strategy session, a complimentary strategy session is a good place to start. I would say the calls are usually 30 to 45 minutes. To help us get to know you a little bit better. 

And you get to know us. Like the gentleman I spoke to today, I think we talked for like 40 minutes, had a great conversation, and we're going to meet again in a couple of weeks. So here's how you know if this is for you to schedule a strategy session. If you're motivated, if you want to really roll up your sleeves and take a look at what you have and make sure you're in good order. If you're committed to reaching your goals, right. You're committed to reaching these financial goals, whether that's you're working, or you're getting close to retirement and you want to make sure you have these things that you want. If you're coachable. If you're willing to be open-minded and learn, we'll sit with anybody for as long as we need to, to go through things and make sure you fully understand it. 

We just ask that you come in with an open mind and a willingness to learn. And that you take action. That you're an action taker. John and I are both action takers. We love working with people who say, you know what, I want to roll up my sleeves, I want to get to work, I want to get this done so I can enjoy my life. How do you know if this is not for you? A strategy session. Well, pretty simple. If you're not coachable. That's one. That's one way, you'll know it's not for you. If you're not willing to listen to other ideas. If you're not willing to be open to thinking of things in a different way. And if you're also expecting some unpaid consulting, okay. That's how you know if it's not for you. 

So now, if you're listening and say, you know what, I want to schedule a time for a call. I want to meet with John, I want to meet with April, how do I do that? You got a couple ways you can do that. You can call our office, 850-562-3000. And ask to schedule a time for a strategy session. Just let Zac or whoever picks up the phone, let them know you're on the webinar and you want to schedule your complimentary strategy session. It might be a couple of weeks out depending on our schedules, but they'll get you on the calendar. You can email us directly so you can email me, April_Schoen s c h o e n @glic g l i c.com. 

And I will send out an email follow up to this. So you'll have my contact information there as well. And you can go to our website. So johnhcurry.com. That's where you're going to see our podcasts, you can get a copy of the book, our course just for FRS members and you can schedule a time for a call. But the best and easiest way is just to call our office 850-562-3000 and ask to schedule your complimentary strategy session.

John: Very good. I'm glad we got the topic covered. And I feel like we're just doing like a like a book review via webinar slash podcast

April: Yeah, kinda like a little book club. I love it. So look forward to talking with you guys soon. We've got several more webinars on the docket over the next few months. One just for members of the Florida Retirement System. That's coming up in February. We're going to do Social Security, Medicare, we're going to talk about taxes in retirement.

John: I want to throw something out. I want to see what, how much interest we have from people that are on here today. At some point, probably in March, we're interested in doing a seminar in our building in our training room again, like we've done many times before. Last two years we've not done it because of the pandemic. So if you have an interest, just say yes, I would love to attend a live in person seminar, just let us know. I'm just curious about how many people are interested in versus how many people are still like, nope, I don't want to go out.

April: And that'll be at our training office in Tallahassee. And then if we do do it live, we'll also offer a virtual option too for those that are not local. If you're not in Tallahassee, you'll have an option to join virtually. 

John: Absolutely. 

April: Great.

John: This has been very nice. Thanks.

April: Great. Thank you, everyone, for joining us today, and we look forward to talking to you all soon.

Voiceover: If you'd like to know more about John Curry's services, you can request a complimentary information package by visiting johnhcurry.com/podcast. Again, that is johnhcurry.com/podcast. Or you can call his office at 850-562-3000. Again, that is 850-562-3000 John H Curry chartered life underwriter, chartered financial consultant, accredited estate planner. Masters in Science and financial services, certified in long-term care, registered representative and financial advisor of Park Avenue Securities LLC. Securities, products and services and advisory services are offered through Park Avenue Securities a registered broker dealer and investment advisor. Park Avenue Securities is a wholly owned subsidiary of Guardian. North Florida Financial Corporation is not an affiliate or subsidiary of Park Avenue Securities. Park Avenue Securities is a member of FINRA and SIPC. This material is intended for general public use. By providing this material we are not undertaking to provide investment advice for any specific individual or situation or to otherwise act in a fiduciary capacity. Please contact one of our financial professionals for guidance and information specific to your individual situation. All investments contain risk and may lose value. Past performance is not a guarantee of future results. Guardian, its subsidiaries, agents or employees do not provide legal, tax or accounting advice. Please consult with your attorney, accountant and or tax advisor for advice concerning your particular circumstances. Not affiliated with the Florida Retirement System. Whole Life insurance is intended to provide death benefit protection for an individual’s entire life. With payment of the required guaranteed premiums, you will receive a guaranteed death benefit and guaranteed cash values inside the policy. Guarantees are based on the claims-paying ability of the issuing insurance company. Dividends are not guaranteed and are declared annually by the issuing insurance company’s board of directors. Any loans or withdrawals reduce the policy’s death benefits and cash values and affect the policy’s dividend and guarantees. Whole life insurance should be considered for its long-term value. Early cash value accumulation and early payment of dividends depend upon policy type and/or policy design, and cash value accumulation is offset by insurance and company expenses. Consult with your Guardian representative and refer to your whole life insurance illustration for more information about your particular whole life insurance policy. Policy benefits are reduced by any outstanding loan or loan interest and/or withdrawals. Dividends, if any, are affected by policy loans and loan interest. Withdrawals above the cost basis may result in taxable ordinary income. If the policy lapses, or is surrendered, any outstanding loans considered gain in the policy may be subject to ordinary income taxes. If the policy is a Modified Endowment Contract (MEC), loans are treated like withdrawals, but as gain first, subject to ordinary income taxes. If the policy owner is under 59 ½, any taxable withdrawal may also be subject to a 10% federal tax penalty.

2022-141144. Expires August 2024.

How to Meet Life Changing Adversity Head On

In today’s episode, I sit down with my friend Steve Gordon to talk about overcoming adversity, or how to deal with life's ambushes.

You may already know my story, but if you haven’t listened lately, we’ll catch you up on one of those life changing ambushes I faced earlier this year. What I went through was by far the most difficult, life changing, game changing event I’ve ever faced, yet it's given me insight and wisdom I wouldn’t have gotten otherwise.

Listen as Steve and I walk through what happened, and how I got to the milestone where I am today, as well as:

  • The first thing you need to do when a life-changing event drops into your life

  • How to quickly get past agonizing and into action mode when presented with a problem—I share the two things that helped me remain calm in the face of such adversity

  • Breakthrough solutions to reset and refocus your mindset

  • The real reason we don’t get what we want and how to change your focus so you do

  • And much more

Mentioned in this episode:

Phone: 850-562-3000

Transcript

Steve Gordon: Welcome to a joint episode of The Unstoppable CEO podcast, The Advisor Inner Circle podcast and John Curry's Secure Retirement podcast. My name is Steve Gordon and I'm sitting here today across the table from my good friend and client, John Curry. And John, welcome. Good to see you again.

John Curry: Steve, good to see you. 

Steve: It's very good to see you again. And we'll get into why. I said it that way in a minute. But folks, if you notice that the audio is a little bit different on this one, we're not in our normal recording situation. So that's okay, we're gonna we're gonna go forward anyway, and make the best of it.

John: No studio today, just using the recorder between us. 

Steve: That's right. 

John: So this is more natural.

Steve: Exactly. So, John, you've had a heck of a year. I know some of the folks listening will kind of know what's happened. But a lot of folks may be listening to this for the first time and haven't heard what's happened, I guess to you would be the right way. Over the last over the last year or so, give us give us a quick update.

John: Okay. Well, first of all, it's nice to be here. And I'm glad we're sharing this with our friends out there. It all started February 25th. I was having some severe pain in my right leg. I was thinking it might be a nerve issue. But in 2019, I had aneurysms, and they put stents in both my legs. So I went to the vascular surgeon, they checked me out the very next day said no, it's not that. Must be nerves. So to shorten a long story between me going between a vascular surgeon and a neurosurgeons office, I ended up in the hospital. They did a bypass to try to save my right leg, that the bypass did not work. That was on March 11th. 

So March 14th, Sunday, March 14th, they took my leg because if they didn't take, amputate the poisoning that was coming up my leg, this leg would get to my kidneys and kill me. So amputation. Got out. Had in home health care, was doing well, I had an infection. And the surgeon and I both were concerned about the left leg, okay, what if the same thing occurs? So March 11th, I go back in for surgery, they cut a hole the size of a tennis ball in my right leg were the infection was. And they did a bypass of the stint in my left leg to avoid it going bad and having another clot. So first time I was in the hospital a week, two weeks in rehab. The second time, one week in the hospital, three weeks in rehab. So I asked him I said, why is it gonna take so long? 

They said well, you've done the same people have before. So we had a good relationship, you dummy. Before you had one good leg, now, you got two bad legs. So it's gonna take longer. Makes sense. And I was bedridden for 12 days. So being as hardheaded and determined as I am and I worked everyday extra with therapists, when they let me go back, sneak back in and have an extra session that would or get on the machines, I would do that. And most recently, just two weeks ago, Wednesday, this week two weeks ago, my prosthesis. And I went from there right over to the hospital that day, checked myself in at a rehab hospital was there for nine days, three hours a day of therapy. To get me to the point of where you saw me walk in with crutches in your back door earlier coming up the steps. 

Steve: That's right. That's right. 

John: Why don't you share about what happened last time I was here.

Steve: The last time, John, came with a wheelchair. And of course, we have a couple of steps to get into the house. And and he didn't he didn't successfully traverse the steps, we'll just put it at that. 

John: I failed.

Steve: We're talking about failure. So. So really, the title of today's episode is how to learn from a deal with life's ambushes. And we're going to talk about that I think from a lot of different angles today. A lot of the lessons that I think have come out of this will relate to personal life, they'll relate to business. I think I think there'll be a lot of good things and some insights that everybody will take away from this. And so I'm excited for the conversation, John. So this has not been an easy process. I think that's probably putting it mildly. 

John: This is the most difficult thing I've ever dealt with in my life, including military training, including kickboxing in Thailand, including open heart surgery 2008. This is by far the most difficult, life changing game changing event at the same time as challenging as hell. It is, it's given me insight and wisdom, I wouldn't have gotten otherwise.

Steve: Yeah, you know, I've told you this privately, I've tried to imagine what it would be like, you know, and really from the that day, in March the 14th, you called me and said, this is what's happening. And I was driving to pick our daughter up from college. I was by myself at the time.  

John: I remember clearly.

Steve: Yeah, the, the thought I had two hours in the car by myself. And the thought that kept going through my head was, how would I react if it were me? And the truth is that none of us know until we face it. 

John: True. 

Steve: And I've noticed that every time that I've mentioned to someone, what you're going through, you can see the look on their face, you know, it's they immediately sort of turn inward and go, oh, that's kind of horrific. It's that kind of horrific. It is horrific. What would I do? How would I react, you can see that that thought process go through just about everybody's head, you can see it on their face, when you tell him that I've observed that. And I don't think any of us can know. 

John: You can't know, but let me tell what I'm telling everyone. It happened this morning in therapy, because I have almost two hours of therapy before I came to see you. Gentlemen came over to see me. Probably about my age 68, maybe 70. He said, I don't know how you're doing what you're doing. I've got can never do that. I said sure you could. Every one of you listening to this could and you would in your own way. Because what's the alternative? You're gonna crawl into a fetal position, suck your thumb and give up? Are you going to fight like hell to get your life back? 

So I've given up a lot. A lot. And I want it all back. And I'm going to have it. I know it. I don't believe it. I know it. There's a difference between believing something. And knowing something. Believing something is what you've learned for someone else. Knowing something is what you've learned, from your own experiences good and bad. So you want to know it? Or do you want to believe it? I'd rather know it.

Steve: I want to take you back to that Sunday in the hospital. Doctor comes in, shares some pretty shocking news with you. 

John: Yes. 

Steve: I talked to you shortly thereafter. 

John: You were my third phone call. Yeah, you were girlfriend, brother, you.

Steve: You were amazingly calm, given what what they told you. And the timeframe in which it was going to happen. Because this was not going to be a hey, we're gonna do this later. We're going to do this now.

John: Correct. 

Steve: How do you face that with that kind of calm? 

John: I don't know. The surgeon, both surgeons involved have asked me every time I see them. How did you so calmly do that? Because here's what happened. My surgeon was out of town. So this partner came in. And she said we've been monitoring and I forget what they call it, a certain level of stuff they were watching. On Friday, it was 4000. Saturday was like 8000, on Sunday it was 12,000. She came in, you can see she was worried. She says we have a problem. We're gonna have to amputate. And I'm thinking my foot. She goes, no, your leg above the knee. Now look at her, I go well, and she said, if we don't do it, this is going to get to your kidneys and kill you. I said well that makes it a pretty easy decision. So you're telling me amputation or die? 

She said, that's correct. I said okay. When do we do this? She said as fast as I can get you in an OR. She's said probably an hour, hour and a half. I said, okay, you got things to do, I got people to call. See you there. So she never even sat down. Came around, went out, and about an hour and a half later, and they're prepping me and we go. And all I can attribute it to is over the years I have trained myself to not agonize and worry about stuff when presented with a problem. And I will tell you, a lot of that goes back to military training, martial arts training, fitness. At one time, I weigh 284 pounds. And one day I just got sick and tired of being sick and tired and started working on that being mentally and physically tough. And we talked about mindset all the time. 

I think it came down to two things Steve. That I had developed a mental mindset that I will not, I will not give up. I did not say I will not fail. You will fail. I have failed today. I've failed a dozen times today. Let me explain. So when you're in therapy, the first time they give you something new to do, it's damn near impossible to do it properly the first time. Because it's brand new, you got on the one leg with the crutches and a new leg. So I'm having to learn and reset and rebalance and rethink everything. Nothing's assigned. But what motivated me through this has been getting back what I lost. 

What did I lose? Dancing with my lady, long walks to the lake, riding my bicycle all the way down to the St. Mark's and back. 32 mile round trip. Martial arts, fishing, hunting with family members. So I want that back. So to get that back, I have to do whatever it takes, that's necessary to get stronger and stronger. Because now just to walk, I have to tighten my glutes real hard and use my thigh. So we're working on muscles that right now they're hurting, there's from a good soreness from working out. But I'm having to relearn everything. And that's a huge smile on there. It's a total. So total mental readjustment.

Steve: Well I would imagine it literally is working. Learning to walk all over again, start starting from scratch.

John: Yes, yeah, definitely. Definitely. But I've had good people around me, which is another thing I would say is key to success no matter what you do, in your personal life, or in your business life. Yeah, we talked about this from Dan Sullivan. The four freedoms, and I put him in this, relationships, time, energy and money. You could poke me in the ribs at four the morning. What are the what are the four freedoms? Relationships, time, energy money. If I don't have good relationships, I don't really need time and energy do I? Don't need much money either. So everything you put in front of me, I'm going to run through those four filters, including my amputation. 

Okay, so what did this do to my energy level? Well, dropped it a little bit. Money didn't bother me, because I had a good team around me to help support me. And that would be April, Jay and Zac and Audie. So I had good people around me. I consider you part of our team, you were there for me. So what is your support group like? Relationships. And those people that are so independent, I don't anybody, well, you're full of crap. You do need people around you. So put the ego on the shelf and accept the fact that we all need each other. We all need someone in our lives, that we can trust and depend upon. And we should be there for them when they need that trust. And so forth. 

And then time. So this is taking a lot of time, it was three hours a day of therapy for nine days in a row in the hospital. It's taken a huge amount of energy, I've had to summon a lot of energy to deal with it. And most of my therapies now, as outpatient are an hour and a half, sometimes two hours. And I'll be doing that for about eight weeks. And I've made a determination whatever it takes. That's the number one goal. There's nothing, nothing, including family. Nothing nobody more important than me being able to walk with this prosthesis, without the aid of crutches. That is numero uno, everything else business, everything else takes a backseat.

Steve: Almost like what they tell you in the airplane, you have to put your oxygen mask on first. 

John: Absolutely. 

Steve: You have to be capable of helping someone else you have to get yourself capable of helping someone before you.

John: And that is the approach I use. And I tell a story. Probably no exaggeration, three, four times a week. And I've been telling it for years and people would say, well, let's have breakfast at 6:30, 7 o'clock on Monday, Wednesday or Friday. What would I say. I can't do it. I'm in the gym at six sharp. 45 minutes with a trainer that I've had for six years, then another one after him. Because the mindset was I had to take care of myself first because remember, at one time I weighed 284. When I weighed Wednesday, I weighed 224.6. And that's including 20 pounds of hardware on me.

Steve: So let's, let's talk a little bit about developing that mindset.

John: Okay. By the way, folks, we don't have a script here so I don't know where he's going to go with these questions.

Steve: Yeah, well, I don't either. So we're working without a net. But it occurs to me that you've developed that skill of sort of resetting and refocusing at a level that most people have not. At least most of the people that I've met.

John: I would agree with that most people around me when I try to explain it, they look at me like I got three heads. They don't get it.

Steve: You, I know you've intentionally worked on this, and you worked on it really for a long time. What are some of the things that you have done that have contributed to being at a place where when they deliver that news on that Sunday, you're calm and focused?

John: I think it's two things. And I think everyone listening has the power to do this. They can snap their fingers like that. And be on their way. I don't think is any great revelation. I think it's two things. I think number one is taking care of yourself, getting physically fit. Because if you're physically fit to where you're you have good cardio, you have good strength. And I don't mean bulking up and being like a big muscle man. I don't mean that at all. I just mean that you, you're fit. Here's what I would call functionally fit, that you can bend over and pick something up. Today the lady thought she was going to have some fun with me, the therapist, Judy is her name. 

She takes my crutches from me and she puts them on floor. She says what are you going to do now? I said bend over and pick them up. She goes, there's no way you just did that. She wasn't expecting. I got two of us, and I didn't touch anything. She says okay, let me see them. So she put one here and one over there. What are you going to do now? Bent over and picked up the first one, I reached out with it and pulled the other one to me. She goes, damn. Okay, and I said what else? And then later she puts a, like little barrier thing like a bolster in front of me and she stood on it. So I couldn't move it. So I just walk up to it, put my crutches in front of it, stepped over it. Put the crutches over it. Brought the prosthesis over and she goes, I would never had thought you do that. Where'd you learn that? Practicing on curbs. Every time I park my truck there's a curb along the opposite. I got to practice that. 

What if there's no wheelchair ramp? What if there's no easy way to get out? I've got to do the walk up a step with a curb. So I've been practicing. So I would say two things. Work on your physical fitness to the point of you are comfortable, you're balanced, you can bend over and you can do the things you need to do. You have your balance. Because if you work on the physical side, the mental side will get real tough. That's why in military, I was in the Air Force. There was eight weeks at the time, the basic training. Don't knw what it is nowadays. Played football in high school, I had to cut tough coaches right in your face screaming at you all the time. So early on, I did a lot of hard work. Loading watermelons, loading hay, loading bulk wood. So I've always had someone of the physical mentality of doing what it takes. 

And then just over time, I started reading everything I could get on understanding how the mind works, and reprogramming your brain. Now, I've done that from day one in my business. 1975. You've see my library, and books like I just gave you by David Goggins, Can't Hurt Me. So anything and everything I'm getting my hands on written by a special operations people like Navy SEALs, Green Berets. I read that understand it as much as I can. We're not in combat. We're not in combat, literally. But we're in combat every day. There's crap happening all around us every day that we have to deal with and, and get our work through. And some people are locked up right now? They go home. I have a friend who lives in my subdivision. She has not been out of our house other than going to Publix straight back for a year. Well, she's March of last year. That's a year and a half. 

Steve: Wow. 

John: She has been out for home she told me six times. Six. To go somewhere. Because a lot of times her sister, her daughter would bring her food.

Steve: Let's talk about that for a second. I'm guessing the reason she's stuck in her home is fear? 

John: Absolutely. 

Steve: So let's let's talk about fear. Because 

John: Oh, I've had some fear over the last few weeks, few months. Let's talk about fear. Go ahead, what do you want to talk about it?

Steve: Well, I think that's if we break down the mindset piece of it. Like you can get into all of these tricks and all these things. And you can think that it has to take a long time to develop the skill. And I did for a long time until I realized that largely it's just a decision and the decision can be made in an instant. And you need a couple of things to be able to make the decision. Number one, you need to understand that you have the power to make the decision. And number two, you need to understand what the decision is. And so for me, the way that I look at that is that when I'm presented with something that creates the emotion of fear, that feeling of fear, I first need to recognize that I'm feeling that and then I ask the question, is this real? Does this? Because there are times when you should be afraid, you know, somebody puts a gun to your head. You're probably that fear at that point is probably a somewhat healthy reaction. 

John: I would say so.

Steve: Right, you know, a lion shows up at your front door and the door's open. That's that might be a time to say, fear would be the appropriate reaction. 

John: Absolutely. 

Steve: But, you know, for most of us, who are going to listen to this, who are living in the first world, in no matter where you are in your journey, you're if you're if you're living in the first world, you're probably among the wealthiest people that have ever lived on the planet. 

John: Absolutely. 

Steve: There are very few things in our day to day lives that create that kind of need for that fight or flight, fear. But some of the stuff we go through just in business can reveal itself that way to us. It manifests that way in our minds. And so it's, is this real? And if it's not real, then why don't I just stop reacting to it as if it were?

John: Somewhere early on in my career, first year in my in business, I learned that fear stands for false evidence appearing real. I'll say it again, false evidence appearing real. And I actually created a speech where I talked about fear. And I tied it to football. Okay, so quarterback has a football, he's got a run and all the sudden he looks out and there's this big old linebacker who's got an F on his chest. And then E, A and R. So I'll get to the story now, but as he hit, he realized they disappeared. They dissolved. And most times, it just takes what you just said. 

Number one, I call rebalancing. Okay, I've got to rebalance. Okay what happened here. Something's not right. And in the martial arts, I will tell you that and we're taught, okay, get your bearings, what happened? What's the threat? Can I deal with that threat? Am I capable. And we're taught first to avoid it. If you can't avoid it, run if you can. But if you have to engage, you know what your game plan is, and don't back down. If you got you've got to engage, get it done. And get it done quickly. And I learned that in the ring kickboxing in Thailand, I don't recommend anyone go do that. By the way. I was stupid and young, at 20 years old doing that. 

But the same thing you you knew you knew for a fact, when you crawled in the ring, that you were going to get hurt. Because you're gonna get kicked, punched, and elbowed, and all that was legal. So you knew that going in. Okay, but if you're walking down the street, and all of a sudden some thug comes at you, you're not expecting that because you live in the United States of America thinking that you're safe. But it's not just physical threats. It's financial threats. A lot of people are going through a lot of pain right now, a lot of adversity, because of this pandemic. A lot. A lot of people are fearful and justifiably. But some people are living in fear, and allowing fear to control them, when they could change that in about a nanosecond, if they would just choose to do so.

Steve: You know, and it's not easy.

John: I agree. It's not easy. It's simple. It's just not easy.

Steve: You know, because once you recognize that, that you are feeling the fear, there is a cause for it usually. And while that might not be an immediate existential threat, although in your case it was. I mean, you are gonna cease to exist, right? 

John: Within hours.

Steve: Within hours if you hadn't dealt with it. But, you know, I think it's, it's a matter of recognizing, getting rid of the emotion of it, so that you can then focus and deal with what's in front of you, and begin to move through it.

John: And that's the hard part. The hard part is letting go and separating the emotional side from the decision making side. That's what I'm battling every day now. I got frustrated this morning. People can't see me but I'm wearing, I wear shorts most of the time, because it's very difficult to and I have three pair of dress slacks that I've had the right leg cut at the knee and hemmed, and a pair of jeans and one pair of khakis. Because sometimes I'll put om the long pants. But the way it is with this prosthesis pretty much I have to wear shorts for the time being. I'll get to the point where I can wear the pants, but it's a pain because the leg has to go on before I can put the clothes on, the pants on and it this morning. I just wanted to take the damn leg and throw it out the window. Back door. That wouldn't be good. 

So I sit there, and my style is I'll just tell people my style is all fuss and cuss for a minute and I'll say screw it. Let's get it done. And I love Richard Branson's book, Screw It, Let's Do It. And as it comes of time we use get a good dose of competitive anger and you say, damnit, I'm not going to give up. And you go for it. But I want to go back to this fear for a minute, or, or a fear or a like this, a negative life event. The first thing we should do is teach ourselves to stop. What's going on? What am I feeling what is happening? Accept where we are. For a long time, I was one of these guys because of the martial arts training and all that in Thailand and later in life a little cocky. 

You know, I was trained, you talked about a gun a while ago. I was trained if you put a gun on my forehead, I take it away from you. Come at me with a knife or a baseball bat, it was mine. I have to accept the fact I'm not as fast as I was before. Even forget about the amputation. I'm 68 years old. Be 69 in December. So we have to accept the fact where some people can't, but along the way wise people accept the fact that they have limitations. And you learn how to adjust. So we have to accept the reality, and then have a new game plan to allow us to move forward. But I want to talk about failure for a minute, go back to that. Those nine days, that I was in that rehab hospital. 

So I had three hours of work then I had 21 hours of reading, sleeping, resting. I'll bet you those nine days, I didn't watch four hours of television. I read two books from cover to cover. Made a lot of notes. Pads like this, dictation pads like that, and journals. Determining what the hell I wanted to be when I grow up. So what does the future look like? I don't think we spend time thinking about the present. And the future. Most of us are so hung up on the past and compare our life to the past. And I like to think and again, I don't know who I learned this from, you can look in the rearview mirror, or you can look through the windshield. The windshield is much bigger and it's looking forward. Rearview mirror is the past. Now driving, you got to use both to know what's around you. But there comes a time see, we just have to accept the fact that hey, this is not good. This is not good. 

Having my leg cut off was not a good event. A lot pain, a lot of tension in personal relationships. Cost me a relationship that's very dear to me. Set me back some. But on the financial side, everything is sound because I had everything in order. Good team around me to support. And my number one goal about 10 years ago was to work on what happens to my clientele, if something happened to me and I died, became totally disabled, or truly wanted to walk away and retire. And I've been very blessed to build a team around me of people who are loving, caring professionals, they love our clients, clients love them. So I didn't have to worry about my clients being taken care of. I didn't have to worry about money, since back in March. Because I have a team around me to help me. I have the infrastructures and support team. But I think all that's important. I think all that's very important. And things will go wrong. They will go wrong. 

Steve: I think that's just the nature of the world. And certainly if your business if you're not a crackerjack problem solver, you're gonna be in for a world of hurt. I mean.

John: Or surround yourself with people who are. I'm so proud of April, she did something, yesterday we did a webinar and she wanted to try something new. I said go for it. She did and it was very successful. But we have to be willing, as business owners to have people around us that are smarter than us and are willing to do things differently than we are. And we have to have the courage to allow them to do it. Knowing they're going to make a mistake. We make mistakes. Coming along.

Steve: I don't know what you're talking about. 

John: I'm sorry, Mac Davis wrote a song about you. Oh, Lord, I can't wait. Look in the mirror. I get better looking each day. You're so humble.

Steve: Yeah, I resemble that remark. So, you've been working now to really focus your mind on dealing with the adversity that's in front of you and move beyond it, overcome it. I think you've been quite successful, honestly. I mean, I I know that this the medical professionals and therapists that you're working with can't believe the progress that you've made. I nicknamed you the most productive man in rehab. Rehab. I think that was the second time around because you sold a piece of property, bought a truck, sold two trucks. And I think at that point, business wise, your numbers were either equal or maybe a hair below or maybe a hair above, but not so much either direction that you could have even told. You couldn't tell from the outside that you've not been at the office for about six months at that point. And I've noticed all through this time, you have been focused more than ever on strengthening that mindset.

John: Because I can't afford to have a lapse in that. It's more important now than ever. 

Steve: Now, have you had any lapses? 

John: Oh, yeah, I've had two meltdowns. Yeah. They, the first one was at my lady's kitchen counter. I'm sitting there on a barstool and all of a sudden tears just came out of nowhere. Just flowing down my cheeks. Her name is Susie, she said, are you okay? I said I'm fine. She came around behind me, put her arms around me. Said you'll get through this, you'll be fine. And I don't know what it was. I just was just sobbing for just a few minutes, then I was fine. Almost like brushed it off and was good. Don't know where the hell that came from but it did. Second was in the second rehab. When I was working on a machine called a new step. It's a recumbent, recline, elliptical. And I've been on the thing a dozen times. I get on it. My right leg that was been amputated, involuntarily, just raised up on it's own, without me trying to do a thing with it, to go into the stirrups to pedal.

Steve: As if it was putting your foot that's no longer there in place.

John: That's correct. And just tears just started flowing then. So I stop. I'm just sitting there. I didn't realize it. But one of the therapists that was assigned to me, she saw what happened. She came over put some tissues in front of me. Says you want to talk about what just happened? I said I do. She said, you know what happened? I said I know what happened. The brain thinks my left foot is still there. And it was fitting it up on the stirrup because the left foot. She said that's right. She said you want to talk about it? What's there to talk about? I know what happened. I know why it happened. Now I can do it. She said why do you think it's so emotional? I said because it absolutely was so unexpected. Kind of blew my mind. But those those are some of the things where and I've had some anger. 

I've had two times where I'm just madder than hell. one was putting on clothes. I had a foot on my dresser. I wanted to go to the office, look good because I've been in working. Not like I disappeared forever. So I've been in the office quite a bit as of yesterday. Two client meetings and a webinar. Yesterday. I was trying to put on my pants and I couldn't get the pants. Didn't have the prosthesis then so I got mad. I took the pants off, threw them in the corner. Took the dress shirt off threw it in the corner. Girlfriend was by me. She goes, you feel better? I said actually, I do. This shirt I have on, fishing shirt, and pants to that big wide legs is what I've been wearing is my new way to dress. Matter of fact was talking to Chris in our office, and I said just on what I'm wearing. He said I think you have earned the right to wear whatever you want to.

Steve: So we've talked a little bit about dealing with life's ambushes. But I want to talk now about what you've learned from life's latest ambush.

John: I've learned that it's okay to admit you can't do something. It's okay to accept help. It's okay to ask for help. I remember my friend Claire Rice telling me many, many years ago, two things. One was, the occasion was I gave a speech, big group of people, about 200 people at the time. And people were standing up applauding and I stepped off the stage real quick. Now fortunately, she was in the front row. So she steps up, grabbed me by the elbow, takes me back to the stage. And like points at me. Made me stand there. Now she had no role in this organization at all. 

But she just took control. And afterwards she told me, she said don't do not walk away when people are praising you. Do not diminish that. And then one day she offered me something and I forget now what it was. I said no thank you. She said do not deprive me of my gift. I go what? She said I'm trying to do something for you. If you say no, you're depriving me of my gift to you. And for a period of time I forgot that during this. Because what's the mindset? 

Steve: Gotta learn how to do it.

John: I got to learn how to do it, yeah. Help out at the truck when I drove up. What did you do? You offered to close in truck door. Yeah, you did get my bag for me. Normally that just got a little long strap that goes right around my neck and I keep on going. Because I can't have both hands free obviously with crutches and the crutches I use folks are forearm crutches, not under the arms. So the learning how to ask for help, pray, accepting help. Saying please, thank you. I've always been pretty good at those. But this is redoubled them. And also the wisdom part of it is realizing, really whatever comes your way you'll deal with it, you'll find a way to deal with it. 

My favorite phrase right now is, I told it to the gentleman this morning, of one of the therapists, he's just a massive man. Good God his shoulders are wider than mine and yours combined. Big old guy, and fit. about Six six, monster of a man. And he looked at me goes, there is no quit in you is there? I said, oh yeah. I said there's a little book called The Dip, you might want to read by Seth Godin and it talks about when to strategically quit. And there's basically three curves, it's on the dip, the, help me out here.

Steve: The cul de sac.

John: The cul de sac, thank you. And the cliff. If you know you're about to launch off the cliff, you might want to turn around and go back the other damn way. Don't keep doing that. And a cul de sac is the toughest one, folks. And this is what I've been dealing with on a personal side that Steve's intimately knows about because we've, because I've bugged the hell out of him about it. If you're on a cul de sac, it simply means you're doing the same old thing going around a circle, going around a circle. And when you catch yourself doing that, get off of the cul de sac. You know, get out, get off it, or a round about. 

Probably better way to think about it. And then the dip is where there's a learning curve. And there's a huge learning curve I'm discovering, and from the time you strap on a prosthesis that weighs about 20 pounds, it feels like it was 100 pounds, by the way, lifting it up. Big learning curve just on how to get it on properly. And then how to stand up and learn how to use it. I'm nowhere near got that perfected. I've been working on that three hours a day for nine days. And then an hour and a half a day, three days this week. So I got a lot to learn.

Steve: It's been amazing to watch anything before we wrap up, John, that we haven't touched on that you wanted to share today?

John: Yes. I thought of something else, that I think is extremely important that I have to give Steve credit for one time really beating me up over. And as our friend Dan Sullivan wrote a book called Wanting What You Want. And Steve and I were in Orlando, actually Winter Park for one of his events. And I had went and purchased a strap for a Rolex watch. And the strap was like $175. And I was telling Steve about it. And I got kind of miffed at him because it felt like he thought I was either like trying to justify or rationalize it. Now I was just bragging about it I thought. And he says, want what you want. And what I'm learning more and more, and I'm a tad impatient with people who all I hear is tell me what they don't want. So in a business setting, tell me what you want. 

And they start telling me all the things they don't want. I will say this every time and everyone on this call can use this personally and professionally. You're real clear Steve on what you don't want. And I'm glad you are, but I haven't heard one thing out of your mouth yet that would tell me what you want. What do you want? And I I'm wearing that question out. Even with myself. What do I want? I've got so much clarity now from being forced, forced to be bedridden. One time it was seven days. Second time, 12 days, and then being I don't want to say helpless. I don't like that word helpless. But needing people to help me do stuff that I'd rather do myself, even from the standpoint of bed, getting him to use bathroom by myself and not allowing somebody with a bedpan or bathing me. 

They're like, it's our job. I know. But you know what, I'd rather do that myself. Thank you very much. So I was determined, but I just want to say, be clear on what you want, get clarity. I'm using that word clarity over and over and over. I need clarity. So I tell people, I learned this in the military. Tell me what you want. Show me, demonstrate it in other words, then let me do it. And in the world of speaking. Let me tell you what I'm going to tell you. Tell them and tell them what you told them. Good trial lawyers will tell you that. They can tell the jury, Mr. and Mrs. Jurors, here's what I'm going to demonstrate to you. They do it and they come back. And they summarize by saying, here's what we did. So get clarity on everything that you deal with. And if you don't have clarity back off for a moment, say what is it I want? Why am I doing this? I'm not doing this to please someone else. 

It goes back to relationships again. Relationships, time, energy, money, like why am I doing it? You have earned a relationship with me. If you call me at four in the morning said John, I need you. Where the hell are you? John, I need $50,000. Where are you? How do I get it to you? So time energy money? Not a question. Okay, so there are people in your life that just because of the power and the strength of the relationship, the time, energy, money is not even a question. But you have to earn that. So, for me, all the things that you and I have been studying for a long time together, we've been we've been helping each other for a long time. We've been together for each other through a lot of stuff. The Good, the bad, and the ugly. But I'm realizing at a, I call it a gut level, I don't know if that's the right way to put it or not, but at a not just an intellectual level, but at a true physical gut level. 

That all that stuff's important. And it's important to just keep on keepin on. That, if you don't have clarity on what you want, you might find that you're working your tail off wasting a lot of time and energy and money. That's not necessary. So for me, I'm just asking myself, what's the number one relationship? Me. I'm number one. And that sounds cocky and arrogant. Until you understand, it's like he said about the mask on the airplane. If I don't take care of me, first, I can't be a value to you, or anyone else. Can't be a value to my family, friends, clients. Take care of yourself. So I would end it with this. Get real clear on what you want in all areas of your life. I'll repeat the freedoms again, I would encourage you to embrace this, I would encourage you to go to strategic coach and get his book and learn it. 

But relationship freedom, time freedom, money freedom, excuse me energy freedom I'd put it, and money. Money's last. I can get more money. And by the way, I used to say you can't get more time, that's not true. You can purchase time. I can buy other people's time. I can buy their energy, I can get more of my own energy by doing what? Relaxing, rest, eat properly, exercise, so I can create more energy. So one of the things we've been told, which is not true. People say you can't get more time. Yes you can. I can buy other people's time. I can trade my money for their time. I can trade some of my money for your energy. Makes sense. 

Steve: Totally.

John: And that puts you in a position where you can present things you want. And I would end with one more thing. I'm glad we're doing this. Because there are a lot of things that we are dealing with now that are tough to deal with what's happening with the pandemic, with all of the divisiveness that we see around us. I see people in my rotary club and 100 Club, where you went when I spoke the other day for lunch. I see people that are arguing about stuff that in the scheme of things, they have no damn control over. And more and more people are asking me how can you be so calm about this particular problem, whatever. What can you do about it? When it comes to financial planning, retirement planning, I ask people, you appear to be worried about the global economy? 

So let me ask you a question. What can you do about the global economy? US economy? The state economy? The local? You can't do a damn thing about that. You can go vote. If you don't like policymaking decisions. But there's only one economy you control. It's yours. You control how much you save. You control how much you spend. You may not control how much you earn, because you have a fixed salary, maybe. But you do control how much you spend, and how much you save. And it's the same thing with our energy and our time, we get to control that. So I would just simply say,I  hope what we've covered today will help a lot of people. One of the things that I have decided that's most important to me, moving forward is how many people can we impact in a positive manner? 

Through our recordings, our books. By the way I have a new book, thank you very much for that. I just think we have an obligation to help as many people as we can. And I love what our friend Dan says also, there are seven and a half billion people on the planet. I don't need all of them. I only want to work with the ones who want me. And if they don't want me, that's okay. But on that note, I will say thank you for doing this and taking the time out of your day to let us have this conversation.

Steve: Yeah, this has been great. Thanks for sharing and for being open. And, folks, I hope this has been beneficial. Regardless of which of the three podcasts you're you're listening on. If you're not already subscribed to one of those podcasts and you come across this recording, go to iTunes or your favorite podcast player and subscribe to either The unstoppable CEO podcast The Advisor Inner Circle podcast or John's Secure Retirement podcast. Until next time, we will we'll be moving forward won't we? 

John: Absolutely. 

Steve: Alright my friend. Thank you.

John: Thank you Steve.

Voiceover: If you'd like to know more about John Curry's services, you can request a complimentary information package by visiting johnhcurry.com/podcast again that is johnhcurry.com/podcast or you can call his office at 850-562-3000 again that is 850-562-3000. John H Curry chartered life underwriter, chartered financial consultant, accredited estate planner, masters in science and financial services, certified in long term care, registered representative and financial advisor Park Avenue Securities LLC. Securities, products and services and advisory services are offered through Park Avenue securities a registered broker dealer and investment advisor. Park Avenue Securities is a wholly owned subsidiary of Guardian, North Florida Financial Corporation is not an affiliate or subsidiary of Park Avenue securities. Park Avenue Securities is a member of FINRA and SIPC. This material is intended for general public use by providing this material we are not undertaking to provide investment advice or any specific individual or situation or to otherwise act in a fiduciary capacity. Please contact one of our financial professionals for guidance and information specific to your individual situation. All investments contain risk and may lose value. Past performance is not a guarantee of future results. Guardian, its subsidiaries, agents or employees do not provide legal tax or accounting advice. Please consult with your attorney, accountant and/or tax advisor for advice concerning your particular circumstances. Not affiliated with the Florida Retirement System. The Living Balance Sheet and the Living Balance Sheet logo are registered service marks of The Guardian Life Insurance Company of America New York, New York Copyright 2005 to 2020. This podcast is for informational purposes only. Guest speakers and their firms are not affiliated with or endorsed by Park Avenue Securities or Guardian and opinions stated are their own.  

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Tax Diversification: The Blueprint For Keeping More of Your Retirement Money

On this week’s episode of The Secure Retirement Podcast, April and I walk through the options for keeping more of your retirement income by paying less taxes—yes, we’re talking tax diversification and the strategies you can employ so your retirement income doesn’t get clobbered by taxes.

As I say, “It’s not what you get, it's what you keep.”

Listen as we break down the three types of retirement investment accounts and walk you through:

  • Why it’s important not to put all of your retirement “eggs” in one basket—how to diversify using the different types of investments

  • How to accomplish what you want with your money and leave it behind in a tax efficient manner

  • How to easily find out which strategies might work for you, how to make them work for you, and when you should be using a different type of strategy

  • And much more.

Mentioned in this episode:

Transcript

April Schoen: Hello, everyone, and welcome, my name is April Schoen. And I'm going to be sitting here today with John Curry and we're going to be talking about tax diversification in retirement. I know a super exciting topic, but we're gonna try to make this as fun and as interactive as possible. And if you don't have it, go ahead and grab a piece of paper and grab a pen because we're going to be going through a lot of information today. And you may have some questions, you may say, oh, I need to check on this, I need to ask April and John about this. I need to get with my CPA. 

So just make sure that you've got a paper and pen handy for any of those questions that come up. And like I said, John's gonna be joining us in just a minute. John is an author we have he's an author of actually three books now. Preparing for Secure Retirement is his first book. His second book they came out earlier this year is The Secure Retirement Method for Members of the Florida Retirement System. And then we also have his new book that just came out, it actually hasn't even been announced yet, which is The Secure Retirement Method, Life Insurance, The Essential Financial Tool That Everyone Loves to Hate. So that is his new book that just came out. 

So before we get started into today's presentation, I just want to tell you a little bit about us and who we are. So John and I, we typically work with people who are getting ready to retire. Many of them are members of the Florida Retirement System. And our clients, sometimes they struggle because they've been so busy with their careers with their families that they just haven't had the time that they would like to really devote to understanding the financial aspect of their lives. And they can feel frustrated, they can feel really anxious or stressed, especially as they get closer to retirement. I actually just had a call with a woman earlier this week, she's looking to retire at the end of December. And she said to me, she said April I actually need to stop thinking about retirement because all I'm doing is thinking about it. All I'm doing is looking at the numbers. I'm stressing about it. And I actually need to stop doing that. So I can like focus on my job that I still have to do, which I kind of laugh about that was that was kind of funny. And I said yeah, this is why we need to look at it. 

So we can take some of that stress off of your plate so you can focus on these other things. So here's what we feel most of them have they been one of the things most of our clients want to make sure that they're making the right decisions for their future. But they don't know how to get started. And what we do is we help them understand a lot in a short amount of time. So they can make better decisions. So that they can feel confident about what they're doing. And the end result is that they have systems in place, they have confidence that their money is actually working for them, and that they're on track to reach their goals. So for example, earlier this year, John and I met with a couple that are getting ready to retire. And had they, really always done everything themselves as when they were working. 

They did all of their investments, and they did everything themselves. But what they said to us, I thought was important that they came to us because they want to make sure as they're stepping into this next phase, they wanted a second pair of eyes on their plan to make sure that they're making the right decision. And then we were really able to help them in just one or two meetings, help them make sure that they had a system in place had a plan in place. They had strategies, strategies in the works to help them to help them get there. And they have a confidence to know that everything was going to be okay, and that they could actually enjoy this next phase of their life, which I think is so important.

John: Absolutely. And the problem with it April, is most people don't give a whole lot of thought to what retirement will look like until they're real close to retirement. But one of the things that we're able to do is get people to start having a vision of that retirement and pretend they're enjoying some of that now along the way. And sometimes we even encourage people, why don't you take a little time off and act like you're retired to see how it feels. That's right. That's right. I've had to do some of that myself.

April: You have. I'm sure you're going to share some of that with us today too. So here's what we're going to talk about today. We're going to talk about tax diversification in retirement. Let me just first of all say that is a mouthful to say. So what does that really mean? Tax diversification in retirement means that you can maintain your current retirement savings and have this income in the future, all while paying less taxes. And that's what we're going to talk about today. How do you have your current retirement savings, and you can pay less taxes, definitely in retirement, but also along the way. 

So we want to make sure that we talk about that. Because what's the real problem here? The real issue is what are tax rates going to be in the future? So if we were in a live seminar, we were all sitting together in the same room together, I would ask you that question. How do you feel about the current tax rates? What do you think is going to happen to tax rates, let's say, five years from now? 10, 15, 20 years from now? Okay, especially with the current climate that we're in.

John: I can tell you having been in this business for 47 years, since 1975, I have seen a lot of tax changes. And right now, Congress is battling over spending bills right now. And the budget cap. So what's happening? You got a lot of people jockeying for position, arguing about taxes, taxes are too low, taxes are too high. And the bottom line is, you don't really know what your taxes are going to be 5, 10, 15, 20 years from now. So you have to have strategies in place, April that will allow you to deal with whatever comes your down to your path? Absolutely. Because I've seen tax changes when I came in business tax rates were 50%. And then the dropped as low as 28%. And now they're back up. And people were talking about 37. You're talking about going back to 39.6? Maybe even going back to 50%.

April: Right. Right. Well, actually John, in a minute. It's a good point, and then I'm gonna pull up. We want to put this chart that is going to show tax history, have you share some of your experience that you've seen over the last 47 years of being in this business, and talk about the tax changes. 

John: Very good. Be glad to do it.

April: There is one other thing that they need to be thinking about, too. And that is, what is their income going to be in retirement? Because tax rates are one thing and let's be honest, there is some uncertainty with what tax rates are going to look like in the future. But we saw that we can have more clarity around is what's the income going to look like?

John: Well, what type of income? So income is not just income folks. You've got taxable income, you've got non taxable income. We'll get into that more. April will be covering that. But just just a little thing to make you think for a minute. What type of income do you really want in retirement? Not just how much? What type of income?

April: Yes, and I say this, I always hear this, I still hear this, which sometimes surprises me is that people think they're going to be in a lower tax bracket in retirement. They think they're gonna have, they're gonna pay less taxes. But we don't really find that to be true. And I'm sure John you, countless stories, I'm sure you could tell of people in the last 47 years that it's been the opposite, actually.

John: We'll get into some of the tax history. I'll share some.

April: Which I think is interesting, too, is I'll actually ask the question, well is that what you want? Do you want to have less income in retirement? Because no one comes in and says, you know what, April, my goal is to have less income in retirement.

John: I'm gonna say it another way. I've had people say to me so many times, hundreds of times, my goal is to be in a lower tax bracket when I retire. I said my goal was to have you in the highest tax bracket. They say what do you mean? I say that means we've taken advantage of every legal way to avoid taxes, and you're making so much money, so much cash flow coming in, that you have to pay top tax rate. That would be a terrible problem to have, would it?

April: Terrible problem to have. So John, let's go, I'm gonna pull up this tax history chart. And have you share, share with us about tax history and what you've learned. Not just through your career, but also through your education as well.

John: Okay. How much time would you like me to devote to this?

April: As much time as you'd like. I think this is so important that we take time to go through this because they've got to understand where we've been and where we're going.

John: Well, let's far at the very beginning. When I was working on my master's degree in financial services, April we had an entire course. Not not just a class, we had an entire coursework on the history of income tax, and what you have the cursor on right now is 1913. With the passage of the 16th amendment, we had income tax. And it was really the first time we had the type of tax we have now because the Supreme Court had shut down and basically ruled that income taxes were unconstitutional along the way. But as a whole lot of, I'm a geek about this, there's a lot of stuff I could share. And sometime we should do that just have one, one webinar just on tax history as well. 

April: Absolutely.

John: There's a lot of stuff there. But you can see that the top bracket in 1913 was 7%. Minimum was 1%. Went to 7. Now if you go back and look at some of the headlines when this was done. Headlines said temporary tax, and it was temporary. Congress did not lie. It was temporary, because what happened the very next bracket in year four it jumped from top bracket of seven to 15, more than doubled in one year. So they didn't lie, it was temporary. Then look at the next year, what happened then? They raised the top bracket in 1917 67%. Now you had to make a lot of money then. Half a million dollars, half a million dollars back then is huge compared to today. Half a million dollars still a big number today. But the point is that Congress has the power to go in and change those tax rates. And they do. And we've experienced that. 

And then go over to the Great Depression years here. And we'll look at what happened here. The tax top bracket here was 25%. Because what happened? There was no no money flowing in the economy. So Congress had to control the tax levers again and said whoops, we got to do something here. And President Roosevelt was like, okay, what do we do in the 30s, especially with social security coming in. So something had to be done. So they had to drop the tax rates to get people to what? Hopefully to get them employed, but also getting money circulating. And then after the Great Depression, look what happened. As soon as we got out of the depression, and by the way, some people even criticize the Roosevelt administration for dragging a depression out for 10 years, a decade, when they usually only last for a few months or a year. 

Okay, like the great recession in 2008. But then look what happened 63%. So you go to 25%. So just about time you think, okay, we got tax rates low, 63%. People said this can't be true. This is from the US Treasury Department, IRS record in 2021. This is not something folks that we made up. You can go to the IRS website and get this. And then let's show them the top bracket because I could talk about this all day long. 94%. 94%. And this is where you hear stories about Ronald Reagan, if you read his story, he was doing a movie or asked to do a movie and he actually refused at one point, he said, why would I do that? I'm going to lose 94% of that income. And he tells a story about how he got a million dollar signing bonus, he had to pay 90% taxes? And he said no way. 

That's when you started slowing down, not acting as much. But then you take a look how high the rates were. So how close to 94% for all those years. Yeah, it's crazy. Over 90% for what, 10 years, 12 years, then he came down. And then you'll see the next level was a 70%. It stayed at 70% for quite a while. Now, this is information that most people are shocked to hear. He was a democratic president, who set the ball in motion to drop it from 70 to 50%. And that was President Kennedy, John F. Kennedy. So way back before he was assassinated, he put into place procedures in Congress to where the tax rates ultimately went down to 50%. Long after he passed. Then, when Ronald Reagan was elected, he pushed Congress very hard to where ultimately you saw the tax rates were 28%, top bracket. And the economy did very well. 

And then George Bush, number one running for president says, read my lips, no new taxes. And what happened. That's when you see the little jump up. The next year actually go back one 31%. So it went from 25%, excuse me 28% or 31. And then after that, it went up to that 39.6. And then we see the little drop 35%, and then go back and you'll see today we're at 37. Back up and down. So what does this tell you? It tells us, tells me after studying this so much over the years, that it doesn't matter what the tax rates are today. Because when you're ready to retire, takes income out or take money out of retirement account it's going to be taxed. And if we don't think about taxes all the way and understand that it's like a see saw the tax rates go up and down. We've got to plan for that. 

We've got to have strategies in place so that no matter what the tax rates are that we don't get clobbered. And if you are sitting there saying yeah, but that's only important to the wealthy. Like like some of the politicians are saying. No, that's not accurate. Because look at the dark green on this, on this chart. Every time there was a tax increase, it helped the lower marginal tax rate go up also. So there is an expression that a flooding tide, excuse me, a high tide will flood all boats. So we just need to understand something. This is tax history from 1913 to 2021. And a lot of the things that were in place in the 80s to help you reduce taxes were taken away. In 1986, Congress with a new tax law, they took away tax deductions that have been allowed for years. 

And they do them retro actively for the first time in our tax history. They just said nope, can't do this anymore. Period. And that was regarding real estate, oil and gas investments that everyday people were using, and they were taken away. Also, one time before this happened, you could deduct the interest on your credit cards, your car loans, department store accounts, all that interest was deductible. It was taken away. Phased it out over four years.

April: And just like with the Secure Act that was passed in 2019, a lot of people were praising the Secure Act because it increased your age for required minimum distributions from 70.5 to 72. Yay, there's an extra 18 months I can delay taking money out of retirement accounts if I need to. But what did it also do? It had sweeping changes for beneficiaries, who were going to inherit, eventually inherit retirement money from especially like their parents or things like that. Major changes in the tax code.

John: And I know that's not the topic today. But that has to be taken into account because it's not just taxes you're going to pay at retirement. It's what are you, what will you leave behind? And how much of a tax burden will there be on those accounts when you die? So I mean this, I love this. I'm a geek about this, as you know, but I'm telling you, this is something that very few people pay attention to. Even CPAs and attorneys. We will find sometimes CPAs will say you know what? I never thought of that. I just tell people to maximize their retirement accounts. Because when they retire they'll be in a lower tax bracket, and that's not true. No, it's not true. If they're doing everything properly, maximizing retirement accounts, and have social security, have a pension, I almost guarantee you they will not be in a lower tax bracket.

April: Right. Absolutely. Thank you, John, for sharing that. I think it's very important context. Because if anyone if anyone on the call today, or you're hearing this later, if you were on the webinar we had a couple of weeks ago with Ed Slott, one of the things that he talked about is that most likely you're in the lowest tax rates that we're going to be in for quite some time.

John: I'd be willing to say this. If Congress does what is anticipated, I'd be willing to bet you we're in the lowest tax bracket, then we'll see for 10 years. And I hope, I hope that they don't get all the changes in their tax rates that they're talking about. Because it's not just tax rate increase, as you pointed out, that add all these other things to it.

April: Okay, so one of the things that we're going to talk about too, a little bit later on, we're going to get into an actual look at a case study. So we're gonna look at a case study and say, hey, if you do option A, or you do option B, which is going to give you that better outcome, and what does that mean? That means which one's going to give you higher after tax income? Because you're going to see, we're going to look at this case study of saying, okay, it's fine if you have. Or we're going to look at the case to see having the same gross income, you know, person A and person B, they're taking the same amount of money out, that's gross, but it's not what you get. It's what you keep. And that was one of the other things that Ed Slott said, too, it's not how much income you get. It's all how much do you get to keep? Okay, so we're talking about having a higher after tax income. 

This also is going to give you some flexibility, about when and how to take income, because you're not going to have as much government control about oh you can't take it till after 59.5. But you gotta start taking it at 72. And here are these tax rates and here these penalties. So we're going to talk about how do we limit some of that as well. And then also looking at tax efficient options for beneficiaries. Now, you may be saying, April, I don't really care so much about tax efficient options for my beneficiaries. Like they're going to get what they did, and they can deal with it. It's more about me, and it's more about my planning. And that is true. 

So my thing here would be though, this is not an or question. This isn't a how do I structure, I'm gonna have to take something away from my retirement just so my beneficiaries have a better result. It's not an or, it's an and question. How do we do both? How do you have the income that you want and need in retirement, to have the lifestyle that you want, and it's tax efficient for your beneficiaries.

John: Yeah, but on the other hand, people have the right, if they want to, to let the money go to the government. Congress spend it, anyway they want, or they can let it go to the families. So I crack at it, when I hear someone say I don't care about the kids or the grandkids. I don't care about taxes. Okay, good. So you're going to give it to the Internal Revenue Service, they're going to give it to Congress to spend the hell out of, instead of giving it to your own family. They look at me like, oh my god, I feel like a dummy. I don't want you to feel like a dummy, I just want you to understand that is what gets people in trouble is they're not willing to express themselves, and then get you information to help them. They're not willing to get coaching.

April: Unintended consequences, right? Unintended consequences. So we're going to talk about the different types of retirement investment accounts. We're going to break them into three categories. Tax deferred, taxable and tax favored. Talk about different tax planning strategies, and then also how to use Roth IRAs and permanent life insurance in your tax planning. So we're going to talk about all these different strategies. And we're going to talk about how in a lot of the specific strategies you can implement as well. So one of the things I want to point out here is it's incredibly important that you don't just do these strategies without seeking professional advice. 

You know, the whole, like, hey, we're professionals don't do this at home. That's kind of what we're talking about here. Because we don't want you to make a big mistake. We're going to walk through some of that. So one of things I would suggest is that you schedule a time for a strategy session with me or with John. And on the strategy session, we're going to help you get clear about what opportunities are available to you. What's holding you back. What roadblocks are in your way? And what specific steps do you need to take, so that you can save time, money and help you reach your goals faster?

John: What is the cost for that strategy session?

April: This strategy for those on the webinar, we are not charging for the strategy session. So no cost. So thank you for pointing that out. Yep. Free strategy session.

John: Complimentary.

April: Complimentary. That's right. Okay, this is the part of the program where I have to give you important disclosures. Okay, so it goes back to what I just said about not doing this on your own. Seek professional advice, okay. So you really want to seek and you want to look and talk to a tax professional, legal professional, regarding your own financial situation. Let's get into these different types of accounts. So as we mentioned, we're not really sure what tax rates will be in the future. But we do know there's always going to be taxes, right. So this is the reason that we're very big believers in tax diversification. Because when you use a wide range of different accounts, types of accounts for retirement planning, you may be able to pay less income taxes, when you begin to withdraw money from those accounts. Which means you're going to have more disposable income for you and for your family. And we're going to break these down into the tax deferred, taxable and tax favored. So the first one we're going to talk about is tax deferred accounts. 

Now this is what we find to be is the most common approach to retirement planning. And this is using things like a 401k a 403b, or a 457. Now with these accounts, you put money in today pre tax, it's going to grow tax deferred, but when you go to take money out in the future, it's all taxable at your highest marginal rate. Okay, say that again. It's all going to, any any every dollar that comes out of these accounts comes back to you, it's 100% taxable at your highest marginal rate, very important there. Now there are some tax deferred accounts that you can use after tax dollars with. So this means you pay the tax today, you put the money in the account, it's going to grow tax deferred, but when you go to take money on the future, the gains are coming come back to you as taxable. These examples of these types of accounts would be a non deductible, traditional IRA and a non qualified annuity. 

Another type of category is a taxable account, or we call them tax as you go. These are accounts that you contribute with after tax dollars. So I'm going to pay that tax today, I'm going to have it go into some sort of savings or investment plan. But as it's growing, I may have to pay tax. So these are the types of accounts that you'll get a 1099 at the end of the year, and you may have to pay tax on interest, on dividends and capital gains distributions that happened within the year. Okay, so some examples. What are these, right? So these are money markets, CDs, mutual funds, stock portfolios, bonds, and even real estate rentals as well. Now, we're going to spend most of our time today talking about tax favored accounts. We also call these tax free and these are accounts where you make contributions today with after tax dollars. 

So let's be honest, there's really no there's very few things in this world that are truly tax free. Okay. You can, so in the situation these types of accounts you pay the tax today, but here's the difference. It's going to grow tax free. So you don't pay any tax while it's growing. And when you go to take income out in the future, it also comes back to you tax free. Here are some examples of these tax favored accounts. Municipal bonds, Roth IRAs, 529 plans, and then cash value life insurance when it's structured properly. So we're mostly going to be spending our time today talking about Roth IRAs, and then the permanent life insurance today.

John: I have a question before you go further on that. If you are a farmer, I'm holding in my hand, what?

April: Some corn kernels.

John: That's right. A jar full of them. So if you're a farmer, and you're planting corn, given the choice, would you rather pay income tax on the cost of the seed corn that you're going to plant in the ground, or wait until the harvest and pay tax on the harvest?

April: I would rather pay tax on the seed.

John: But your crop may fail. So you may not have a crop. So you pay tax up front. On the other hand, you may have a bountiful crop. So what we have been conditioned by institutions, and the government is oh, we're not going to make you pay tax on the seed today. You can just pay tax later. And when later comes, if you're successful, and your accounts did what you wanted them to do, guess what? They get more tax. So they're not helping you save taxes. They're planning for their long term future at your expense.

April: That's right. And that's what we're going to talk about today. The difference between doing both of those things, right. Very, very important.

John: And full disclosure, I have regular retirement accounts. I have Roth's and I have life insurance. So I'm not saying one is better than the other because they're all important. So I'm not implying that. But it's important to go back to what you said earlier, April. You gotta find out number one, if a strategy fits for someone that's on this webinar today, and if so, to what degree and then how do they do it?

April: Absolutely. And that's a great point John, I think I think this is really good. We're going to go into this next section, and we're going to talk about when should you be using these different types of strategies, okay. So when you're choosing these different accounts, right, so the accounts you choose for your retirement income will depend on where you think that your tax rate will be in the future when you retire. So if you think that your tax rate in return will be higher than it is today, then you should put more of your money in those tax favored accounts like Roth IRAs, life, the permanent life insurance. This way that you are paying tax on your money today. And then you get to enjoy tax free income in retirement. 

Okay, so that's if you think I really, two things. You think that tax rates will be higher in the future, your income is going to be higher in the future, kind of those two things together. Are you going to have higher taxes in the future? If that's the case, you need to be focusing more on tax favored accounts. But the opposite is also true. If you think that on the other hand, if you think that your tax rate is going to be lower in retirement, then you should be looking at tax favored accounts. Excuse me tax deferred accounts, like a 401k a 403b 457. Because for these people, they're willing to take that chance. You just said that earlier about, well, what if it fails, right? But it's, they're willing to take the chance that their tax rate in retirement will be lower than it is today. 

So they use these accounts to take advantage of a current tax deductions that they offer. But again, remember, they're going to grow tax deferred, that every dollar that comes out is going to be taxable. And this is where it really comes down to your individual situation. So I was think about this this morning, John, is that this week, having different conversations, because pretty much every day that we work, we're having conversations with people who are getting ready to retire. And I had one woman who talking to her, it actually makes sense for her to put money in tax deferred vehicles. She was actually doing the opposite. She said, oh, well my coworker told me, I should just do the Roth. And I said, well, I don't think your coworker fully understands the full scope of what it's going to look like for you in the future.

John: But it also points out, people mean well, giving advice. But it goes back to where you were kidding around about. We're professionals. We'll try this at home. People who hear something on some talking head on television or a well meaning friend at work, or they read an article, and they go off and they do that plan, and they discover later they've got a problem. It comes down to personalization. What applies to you, and when you peel all the layers of the onion back, most the time people are getting advice. The person giving the advice they haven't taken the time to even learn what the person asked. That's not our approach. Our approach is we look at everything if we're going to work together, and then we're able to say, okay, instead of piecemeal, you have a plan now.

April: Absolutely. Because, again, same week. So that was early in the week. And then I also had a conversation, I think it was Tuesday with someone who's maxing out, they're putting as much as they can into their deferred comp. And I said, have you looked at to see if that makes sense? And she said, not really. And I said, okay. I said, well, I think we need to look at this, because we may find that you're actually doing some reverse tax planning. And I can see she kind of thought about that for a second. I said that means you're deferring tax, you're paying at a lower rate, you're deferring a lower tax rate today, to pay higher taxes in the future. And you can see how I rule. I was like, yeah, that's not necessarily what we want.

John: Well, that's why a retirement rehearsal is so important. See, you can look forward, and say okay, if you keep doing what you're doing, or you do what you say you want to accomplish. This is what it looks like. How do you like it?

April: Absolutely. Looking at both, right. So when most people think of planning for retirement, they think of that, really, traditionally speaking, they think of having a 401k. They think of having a 403b or 457. But there are a lot of alternatives for retirement savings. You could have CDs, mutual funds, stock portfolios, municipal bonds, IRAs, Roth IRAs, and there's a couple of strategies that we find that they're either overlooked, or they're not utilized to their fullest capabilities. And that's what we're going to talk about today. And that's going to be the Roth IRA, and then also using permanent life insurance. So we're going to go spend some time, I think it's very important to spend some time, we're going to talk about those two strategies, how they work and how you can use them. 

But before we get into that, I want to do this case study we talked about, in looking at really the impact of tax. So we're going to look at two scenarios. We're going to look at, do you take income from a pre tax vehicle like a 401k? Or what does it look like if we have some diversification. Because if you remember we talked about earlier, tax diversification means that your money is mixed throughout multiple categories of accounts. And that allows you to have some flexibility, and allows you to have some choices when determining how you'll be taxed during retirement. So here's an example of how this might play out. So let's say that you take $100,000 out of a 401k. Okay, so this is all pre tax money. And so you're taking out your 401k. And now we're assuming you're gonna do this after 59 and a half, so you don't have any penalties from the IRS. 

And let's say you're in a 32% tax bracket. If you are, then you've got to pay 32% of that withdrawal in taxes. So $32,000 goes to taxes, and you have a net withdrawal, a net income of $68,000. Okay, or let's look at option B. So let's say option B is you're going to take half of the income from your 401k. And you're going to take the other half from a tax favored asset, like whole life cash values, or a Roth IRA. So what happens then? So now when you take this withdrawal, you actually end up paying $16,000 less in taxes, you only have to pay taxes on the withdrawal from the 401k. The rest of it comes back to you tax free. So now you have a income, a net income of 84,000. 

John: Pretty nice increase. 

April: Pretty nice increase, definitely. So again, it's not what you get,  it's how much of it do you keep. So that's why this is so important. So let's get into and talk about first Roth IRAs. So what is a Roth IRA? A Roth IRA is an investment account that you contribute to today with after tax dollars. The gains are not taxed while it's growing. So you put money in today that's already been taxed, it's gonna grow tax free, and then when the income comes back to you in the future, it's going to come back as tax free as well. Now, there are some caveats to making sure that Roth IRAs are structured properly. 

So we're going to talk about that a little bit as well. One of the things that we've, a couple things we like about Roths. One, there's a wide range of investment vehicles. I mean, almost any type of investment that you can imagine can be used inside of a Roth IRA, because we get that question. Well what kind of investment is this? Well the Roth is really just how the account is categorized, and how it's viewed really by the IRS. What you have inside of it is going to be up to you. So you've got a wide range of options on the investment side. There are no required minimum distributions on a Roth IRA. 

Now, we don't have enough time today to really go into the required minimum distributions. That also could be a webinar all on its own. But if you don't know what a required minimum distribution is, it's a rule by the IRS that says you have to start taking money out of your pre tax retirement accounts when you're 72. whether you want it or don't want it. Whether you need it or don't need it, you have to start taking that money out or you're actually penalized. It's a pretty, pretty big penalty from the IRS.

John: Again, we don't have time to cover that in detail. But there is a situation that when even a Roth is subject to required minimum distribution. And it goes back again, to what you said earlier about leaving money to your family, and avoiding taxes, or at least reducing the tax burden. But a family member, let's say, I want to leave my Roth to my son and daughter. They gotta take distributions on it. RMDs. So there's a whole lot of stuff behind the scenes that's moving around, that people don't hear about. They don't hear that. They just oh, I don't have to do an RMD. No, you don't, but if you're gonna, you're gonna die someday. And when you leave the money behind, if there's a lot of money there, now what happens?

April: And again, this is gonna get, we're gonna get into the weeds, but there's RMDs on Roth 401k. So it's not, like, let me just be honest, this stuff is not easy, folks. It is complicated. And there are layers and layers and layers to this, okay. So you've got to make sure that you're working with somebody who knows what they're talking about.

John: You just made a, I got a big chuckle out of that, because I know what's required for us to maintain our licenses of continuing education. Plus what we both do over and above that. There are more letters after my name than in my name because of learning and studying over the years. This stuff is very complicated. And these people in Congress change the damn rules all the time. So what once you learn it, and you know it, now you got to go relearn, right?

April: So Roth IRAs are tax free to beneficiaries. So John was mentioning that. So again, it's what we talked about earlier, right? It's not an or question. It's not a, do I have something or do I leave it behind? It's an and question. How do we accomplish what you want, and leave it behind in a tax efficient manner? So how do you get a Roth IRA? And we get this question a lot. How do I even start one? Well, you've got some options. You can contribute to a Roth IRA. Now a couple key points here, only earned income can be contributed to a Roth IRA. So you've got to have earned income. There are also income limits. 

So if you, there's a chart, we have to follow if you file single, or joint. And if you make too much money, you can't contribute to a Roth. And they're also contribution limits, you can only contribute a certain amount per year. So you got to pay attention to those. You may have a Roth retirement account available through your employer. So you could have a Roth 401k, for example, you could have a Roth 403b, for example. Okay, so that's another option. And you can also convert pre tax retirement accounts to a Roth IRA. Okay, so that's what we're going to talk about next is converting retirement accounts to a Roth.

John: Why would I do that? Because now I've got a pay tax. Why in the world would I even think about doing that?

April: Doing the conversion?

John: Yes.

April: Yes. Let's talk about that. Why would you do it? So let's talk about what it is first, and then how it works? And why would you do it? It's a great question.

John: I did it.

April: So with a Roth IRA conversion, what you're going to do is you're going to convert pre tax retirement accounts to a Roth IRA. What does that mean? That means you have a traditional IRA, you have money in a 401k, a 403b, or 457. And you're now going to convert that amount to a Roth IRA. What does that mean? That means that the amount that you convert is actually considered taxable income for that year. So let's say let's just keep the math easy.

Let's say you converted $100,000, this year. Well that $100,000 gets added on top of your current income, and you have to pay tax on that amount that you convert. So we're gonna talk about that. So you gotta, so it's all gonna be considered taxable income and you got to pay tax on that. So there's a couple things you want to think of. One is, how will you pay the tax? Will you pay it from the account? So I've got this $100,000. Do I have the $100,000 pay the tax? Or do I pay it from another source?

John: You're making it sound like going to get a mortgage. Don't worry about it. There's no upfront cost at all. We'll just let, we'll just add that to your loan and charge you interest for the next 30 years. 

April: Oh, that doesn't sound good. 

John: Instead of just paying my expenses upfront.

April: Right? Right. Exactly. That's exactly what we want to do. Right? So we're paying it today. We rip that band aid off. Okay. Because again, think back when we said earlier, think back when we looked at that, that chart. I don't know about you, but we're in historically low tax rates today. Okay, this is why we have to look at this. We are having more conversations, people are asking us more about Roth conversions today than at any time in my career. It's because we all feel it. We feel like taxes are going to go up in the future. Right? 

So here's what you want to look at. You want to look at how will you pay the tax? Is it from the account? Or is it from another source? This is another question you want to ask. When will you need to take income from this account, and how much? And then how will it be invested? So those are some some key considerations to think about with a Roth. But to answer your question, John, and I kind of did answer it in a roundabout way. You said, why would I do that? Well, the short answer is, is that you go ahead and pay the, you rip the band aid off, you pay the tax today, so that now you have this money in this account, it's going to grow tax free, and you can take income out tax free.

John: Let me tell you why I did it. I decided that the money that's in my Roth account, it's not likely that I'll ever need that money. So I wanted to leave that behind tax free. But if I want the income later, if the account does what I want it to do, that is grow, and do well. And if I change my mind because of inflation, or because I'm having to pay more money in taxes on other accounts that I can take money out if I need it for me, but I don't think I'll need it for me. So I'm trying to plan ahead long term, 15, 20, 30 years into the future. I'm 68. I'll be 69 in December. So people will say why you planning that long. Well, first of all, I may live to be 100 years old. 

April: That's right. 

John: And if I do, I can pretty much guarantee I'll be wanting more income along the way, or at least chunks of money to go do things. So people go, oh, you're right. And if I don't need the money, instead of the government getting it all in taxes, that's where the Roth and ultimately insurance comes into play. In my case, I was willing to bite the bullet, pay the tax, as you say, rip the band aid off and pay the tax. I didn't like paying the tax, but I also know I'm not likely to be in the same tax bracket 5, 10 years down the road.

April: It also, and this is kind of some psychology behind it. But now that Roth, if you do want to take something out of it, it's almost guilt free. Because you don't have this added thing of oh, but I have to pay this tax. Because how many times do we see people that have money in retirement accounts, and they need the income or they want the income? And they don't take it out because they don't want to pay the tax?

John: We see it all the time.

April: All the time.

John: I've seen it so many times in my 47 years in this business, where they said, well, that's my just in case money, just in case. So what you're gonna do, all the plans you had to take vacations, you're not doing them, you're going to die, leave all this money behind, and relatives are going to take your money and go on the trips you never took.

April: That's right. So there is a better way. So let's talk about how Roth are taxed for a second. And then we'll get into some other strategies as well. So there's something with a Roth IRA, that's called the five year rule. I'm going to talk about this conception. But again, this is where Roth can also get complicated, and just going to be honest with you about it. And this is why you want to make sure that if you do this, if you're working with someone that they know the ins and outs and how things work. Contributions that you put into a Roth are always tax free. So if I'm contributing to a Roth, I can take that back tax free. If I convert my IRA, I can take that back tax free. 

So John, for you, the amount that you converted in your IRA, you could turn right around and take that back out, and you don't have to pay any taxes or penalties, etc. On that portion. Okay. But here's where we talked about how this money you put it in and it grows tax free, and you can take it out tax free. So earnings, though inside the Roth may trigger taxes and penalties depending on your age and how long you've had the account. The short answer is, is that if you're over 59 and a half, and you've had the account for at least five tax years, that earnings can be withdrawn tax and penalty free. So this gets a little complicated and we can help you with it about when it's taxed and when it's not taxed. But we just want to make sure that we pay attention to that part as well. 

So now let's get into some different, a different strategy which is talking about the life insurance and how it can help you in retirement. So we mentioned earlier life insurance is one of those strategies that's often overlooked for retirement savings. Because couple things. You're probably already familiar with it as the primary purpose which is the life insurance benefit right. Where it protects your family, it protects your business in the event of you passing. Of the the insured passing. And that's what we refer to as the policy's death benefit. But when we look at permanent life insurance, it has other living benefits. Policy owners can actually access the cash value that builds in the policy for different financial reasons. One of those being that you can supplement your retirement income. This is why this can be a very versatile tool that you can use to help families, not only do you have some protection, but you get it can also help enhance the portfolio wealth as well. 

So life insurance as seen as a societal good, and therefore it has these very favorable tax benefits that a lot of other accounts don't have. So the death benefit goes tax free to your beneficiaries. While the cash is growing, it grows tax deferred, you don't have to pay any tax while it's growing. And you can take out the cash values tax free as well, as long as it's structured properly. Similar to the Roth. There's some rules on that. Let's talk about the the parts of the policy itself. And again, these can get complicated. 

So it's important that we take the time to really sit down and look at these. But life insurance can offer more benefits than just the tax side. Okay, you can have the protection through the death benefit. We see it as a comprehensive portfolio asset because the cash values as they're growing as they're building, they're considered to be a non correlated asset. What does that mean? It means it's not correlated to the stock market.

John: My cash values, in my life insurance policies that I've had all these years, are my most important financial asset, period. I love what I have in the investment world. But I know that every day those cash values go up. We like to say they never have a bad day, they go up. As long as I'm paying my premiums I get even more. In one policy I have I don't even pay the premiums and the cash value continues to grow. I just want to make a plug because I'm here. In my new book that we just got in literally yesterday. In chapter seven, I talked about a lot of the stuff we're covering here. So if people say, I need to know more about that, or that's not enough detail here, just request the book. We'll send it to them complimentary, and they can learn more about that.

April: I'll send out an email after I just thought about this, I'll send out an email after the webinar. And because I did talk about the book at the very beginning, but I'll remind them that's available and see if if they'd like us to send them a copy. That's a good idea.

John: All you have to do is request it. No obligation. It's our gift to you.

April: Absolutely. I was gonna say too, when you were saying that. The way I view the cash values for me, I'm a little younger than you are John. 

John: You're 30 years younger. Smart aleck.

April: But the way, the way I view it is it actually helps me be more efficient in my other investment. It doesn't take away, it actually helps my stock portfolios be more efficient. And we can talk about that.

John: It protects you in a down market so if you need money, you're not taking money out of your investments with a permanent loss. Because once you take it out, it's gone. It can't grow then.

April: That's right. Absolutely. So there are some guarantees in these policies, we don't have the time to really get into all that today. There is, can be dividends as well that help grow the cash and help grow the death benefit. You can again, we mentioned this before, but you can take out the cash value without penalty. So there's no IRS penalty. There's no like 10% penalty for early withdrawals and anything like that. There's no required minimum distributions. And there's creditor protection, especially in the state of Florida. This is not in all states, but definitely the state of Florida. And you can also add on other benefits too, like long term care, which I think is very important. 

John: If they qualify for it.

April: If they qualify for it. That's right. So you know, one of the things that we've talked about today is just using these different investments for tax diversification. 

John: I want to say something.

April: Yes.

John: I'm 68 years old. Some of the stuff that you're talking about, like long term care riders. People in their 30s and 40s. People in their 20s even should be investigating that. Because when you're 68 years old, now it's too late. But it's not too late. It's just more expensive. But if people your age and younger, would take a look at getting a big chunk of good old fashioned whole life insurance with those long term care rider benefits on there, that means a huge world of difference in their retirement. So I would say everybody listening to this, no matter how old you are, investigate it. But at the same time, if you have adult children and grandchildren, one of the best things you can do is either help them acquire that, or at least educate them. Give them the book because they cover it, and then they'll learn more about it.

April: Well, and I'm a long term care, you know, we may find that in the future that people required to have it, because they actually just passed this law in Washington State, it goes into effect January 1, where you have to have your own long term care policy, or you're going to get charged a higher payroll tax, a higher payroll tax. They're basically kind of creating their own program, socially funded program, for long term care.

John: So I did not know that. So I'm in the business, I think I'm a pretty smart guy. But that's, that's one I did not know. But that's also the benefit of us working in some many states, too, because we have clients all across the country.

April: Absolutely. So we have to be on the lookout for those things that can filter down to other states as well. That's right. So really, let's just kind of sum up what we've talked about today. So we really talked about having different investments so that you can have tax diversification. And that just means that you can have more income in retirement because you're paying less taxes. So if you think back to that case study, we looked at same gross income, but much higher, higher after tax income, because we're paying less in taxes along the way. So today, we talked about two main strategies to have more tax free income in retirement. And that's utilizing Roth IRAs and permanent life insurance. But here comes the hard part. How do you know which one is right for you? That's the million dollar question. 

So everyone on this webinar, you guys have choices, right? There's some choices for you, you can do nothing with the information that you got today. You can try to figure it out on your own, or you can work with someone and a team that can help you. Absolutely. So one of the things that we would recommend is that we schedule a time for a strategy session. Because here's the thing. Today we talked about these specific strategies. And these are all strategies that you, anyone on this call can implement, right? But the question is, is it right for you and your situation, and which one is better? Okay. And I'll say it again, it's incredibly important that you just don't make these decisions haphazardly. And you just do them without seeking some kind of professional advice. You don't want to make a mistake and have a tax issue later on. 

So that's why, what  we want to do is set up a time for a strategy session. As John mentioned, these are complimentary. For those in the webinar, we're not going to charge a fee for having a strategy session. And here's what we're going to do in this strategy session. We're going to get clarity about your financial goals and concerns. We're going to get clear on what opportunities are available to you specifically, is one of the strategies that we talked about a good option for you. Should you be focusing on pre tax savings? Or should you have some tax diversity? What's holding you back? What are the roadblocks in your way? How do we clear those out? And what specific steps do you need to take so that you can save time, money and you can get the results that you want even faster? 

Now, I don't know if we're a right fit for you. I don't. I'll be honest, we are not a right fit for the right fit for everyone. But I can tell you that usually in these strategy sessions, on these strategy sessions are usually like 25-30 minutes. At the end of that strategy session, we'll know. We'll know if it makes sense for us to continue working together in some capacity or not. So who this is who this is for. This is for you to set up a strategy session, if you're motivated. If you're committed to reaching your goals. To me, that means you have this lifestyle in retirement that you want. And you want to make sure you get there. That you're coachable, that you're willing to be open minded and learn and that you're an action taker. I had a woman this week, I needed some information back from her. And we got off the call. 

And within like that afternoon, she sent me the documents. And I wrote her back and I said I just want to tell you what, you're an action taker and I love it. You mean we needed this information and you got it back to me right away. That tells me that she's motivated and committed, right? And she wants to really work together to make sure she can she can retire soon. And she wants to go spend lots of time with her grandbabies in Texas. And I said, great, let's figure out how to get you there. But who is this call not for? This call is not for someone if you're not coachable. You're not willing to listen to other ideas. And if you're just expecting some unpaid consulting. Now we don't get that a lot. To be honest with you, it's, we don't, we don't it's rare that we have to turn somebody away. But it does happen. Because like I said, we are, we're not the right fit for everyone.

John: Okay, let's let's expand on that. When we have turned someone away, why has it been?

April: Mostly because they're either not coachable or they're looking, they really want that un, unpaid consulting.

John: And they're argumentative. 

April: Argumentative, yeah.

John: I've had people very, very few thankfully in my entire career who would argue with the signpost. They would argue, I will just tell you, I'm more abrupt about it than you are. I'm not going to waste my time, people who just want to fight. We've got too much of that happening in our society nowadays. If you agree with the philosophy, you're likely to move forward. If not, it's okay.

April: Right? Okay, great. I'm gonna drop this into the webinar so that you have the link, because I was gonna talk about the best way to schedule a call. You can call our office 850-562-3000. That's the best way to call in call our office to schedule a time. And you can also either email me or John to set up a time. And you can go to our website. So you can go to our website, which is johnhcurry.com/call, and schedule your 30 minute call. You can also, I just put a link in, and that's for my calendar. So it doesn't matter which, it doesn't matter which one you do. We just try to make it easy for you. Rather make it easier than harder. So if it's easier for you to go to johnhcurry.com/call, or you can also click the link that I just put put in the chat for you to schedule time.

John: I would like to emphasize something. On this call, the strategy call. There is how much pressure? Zero. 

April: Zero pressure.

John: Zero pressure, none at all. The purpose is to find out if there's a fit, and if so great, if not it saved everybody time.

April: Absolutely. Good.

John: And I will promise that on the call whether it's with April or me, you will walk away with value because you will have clarity. You will have some questions that you brought up that have been answered for you.

April: Well, I just want to say thank you to everyone on the call. As we went through all this information today, we're going to have some more webinars coming up too. We're going to do one on social security. And then we're also going to talk about some risks in retirement, which one of those risks is taxes. So we're gonna kind of go through some of that on one of our next webinars as well. So thank you guys for joining us today and we hope to talk to you guys all soon.

John: Can I do some more tax explaining on that one? 

April: Absolutely. 

John: Okay. Thanks, folks.

Voiceover: If you'd like to know more about John Curry's services, you can request a complimentary information package by visiting johnhcurry.com/podcast again that is johnhcurry.com/podcast or you can call his office at 850-562-3000 again that is 850-562-3000. John H Curry chartered life underwriter, chartered financial consultant, accredited estate planner, masters in science and financial services, certified in long term care, registered representative and financial advisor Park Avenue Securities LLC. Securities, products and services and advisory services are offered through Park Avenue securities a registered broker dealer and investment advisor. Park Avenue Securities is a wholly owned subsidiary of Guardian, North Florida Financial Corporation is not an affiliate or subsidiary of Park Avenue securities. Park Avenue Securities is a member of FINRA and SIPC. This material is intended for general public use by providing this material we are not undertaking to provide investment advice or any specific individual or situation or to otherwise act in a fiduciary capacity. Please contact one of our financial professionals for guidance and information specific to your individual situation. All investments contain risk and may lose value. Past performance is not a guarantee of future results. Guardian, its subsidiaries, agents or employees do not provide legal tax or accounting advice. Please consult with your attorney, accountant and/or tax advisor for advice concerning your particular circumstances. Not affiliated with the Florida Retirement System. The Living Balance Sheet and the Living Balance Sheet logo are registered service marks of The Guardian Life Insurance Company of America New York, New York Copyright 2005 to 2020. This podcast is for informational purposes only. Guest speakers and their firms are not affiliated with or endorsed by Park Avenue Securities or Guardian and opinions stated are their own. 

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